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The Phishhiker's Guide to the Gorge
Hi, phriends. Summer Tour is on the horizon and many of us are making plans, booking flights, reserving RVs, budgeting for shows, and so on. Many of us will be going to the Gorge for the three day run this year. The Gorge is an amazing venue with an equally amazing history(seriously, if you have't read up on the geologic history of the place, give it a look because you will look at the venue in a whole new light). However, it is also a very unique venue. Fifteen minutes from the nearest town. Fourty-five minutes from the nearest city. Ninety minutes from the nearest place recognizable as a city. Two hours and change from the nearest large city. It's high desert. It gets hot and cold in the same day. In order to help people with questions like "where should I fly into?", "what do I need to bring?", "do I need to rent a car?", and the gamut of other concerns, I've made the Phishhiker’s Guide to the Gorge as a reference for everyone. Hopefully some of my experiences since 2013 can help you! I will be updating this as I remember things I left out or people suggest their own tips. But before we start, let me be extra clear about one thing related to safety: Whatever you do, be super careful while smoking or using flames while at the Gorge or on the drive out. The night before the 2018 run was marked by a massive wildfire on I-90 that rerouted all traffic on surface streets around it. Use ash trays, do not flick your ash carelessly, extinguish roaches and cigarette butts with water, etc. Be responsible about this. Also be careful if you pull off to the side of the road as your vehicle’s catalytic converter is hot enough to start a wildfire if dry grass is touching or too close to the bottom of your vehicle! It is no joke. The vegetation within an hour of the venue will be bone-fucking-dry and will catch fire very easily. You could legitimately cancel the whole run for everyone if you're not careful. And I swear that Carini will find you if that happens. This also means no fireworks. For those that are unfamiliar with wildfires, let me share some somewhat disturbing facts to help you appreciate them:
Wildfires move at the speed of wind, which is much faster than you can run
They also can change direction unexpectedly with the wind
The campground is not fireproof and one of the issues with a nearby wildfire is that floating embers often get airborne and could easily start tent fires in the middle of the campground
Evacuating the campground and venue would take a lot of time, even if everyone was already in their cars
There is enough dry vegetation and the right windy conditions around the Gorge to start a major wildfire that nearby fire assets would struggle or be completely unable to contain in the first several hours
You don’t die from burning alive in a wildfire, you die because your lung tissue needs to be wet to exchange oxygen and carbon dioxide across the tissue barrier. Getting caught in a wildfire means your lungs char in the heat and you actually suffocate to death while you are burning alive.
In 2018, when we were pulling into the campground and looking at the west bank of the Columbia with the fire, it looked like something out of a war movie with the whole horizon on fire and glowing orange (that picture is from the road leading from I-90 to the campground looking west over the river the Thursday night before the 2018 shows). BE FUCKING CAREFUL! Sorry for being a bit graphic and intense about that, but this is a legitimate safety concern. After the I-90 fire in 2018 and the random little wildfires in 2013, I figure it is worth reiterating. Maps
This is a map of the Gorge venue and campground outlining the basic areas: day parking, various levels of camping, the venue itself, etc. (NOTE: Generally, the smaller general camping circle is not used for Phish) This is an annotated map of the Gorge campground based on my experience in the last three years. This includes locations of portajohns, Shakedown Street, and the showers. I pointed out portajohns so you can recognize them in the satellite view of the campground. This is just a link to Google Maps centered on the venue in case you wanted to explore.
Area Background
The Gorge is pretty much the middle of nowhere(no offense to Grant County residents, but it kind of is). It is at about 1,300 feet above sea level in the high desert. There are effectively no trees anywhere that man hasn't maintained them. It is sagebrush and dead grass as far as the eye can see. It is super dry and hot during the days. There aren't any clouds to hold in the heat at night so by 3AM, you'll be pretty damn cold. The venue is in the heart of Washington in the aforementioned Grant County. This is a rural area that is used to concert traffic, but the county is more known for being the highest producer of potatoes in the country. The nearest town has a McDonald's and two stoplights. Law enforcement consists of county sheriffs and state police. Fire trucks and ambulances are a good 20 minutes away, at best. The nearest big store like a Wal-Mart is 40 minutes away, northeast of the venue in Ephrata(but the one in Moses Lake another 10 minutes away down I-90 is probably better). You will need to bring pretty much everything you need.
Climate
The Gorge is located in high desert. This means that it is hot and dry during the day and cool and much less dry at night. Daytime is about 80-95 degrees and is usually sunny but sometimes can be cloudy towards the late afternoon. Humidity is 15-35%. Nighttime is about 57-65 degrees and is usually clear. Humidity is 45-60%. There is usually a bit of a breeze, but the wind picks up significantly, and reliably, every day during 11:30PM to 2:30AM, 7:30AM to 10:30AM, and 5:30PM to 8:30PM.
Flying in to the Area
There are several options for airports. To the east, there is Spokane. This is about 2 hr 15 min east of the venue down I-90. You can get here from a lot of airports Denver and west. There is also an option to get here from Chicago on United or from Minneapolis on Delta. To the south, there is the Tri-Cities airport. This is easily the closest airport to the venue, being only 1 hr 45 min away. There are a few flights here, but you will be able to fly here from Denver, Chicago, Minneapolis, and SF. To the west, we have several options. The farthest would be Portland, at 4.5 hours. There are a lot of flights in and out of here and, considering Eugene is the tour opener, might be a good option. The next two options are in Seattle. Most people are familiar with SeaTac Intl Airport, at 2.5 hours away. This has a ton of flights and you can get here from anywhere. This is a solid option. However, Seattle just opened a second airport for commercial service in Everett. There aren't many flights to Everett, but you can get there from Denver and a lot of west coast cities. You could also consider Bellingham or Vancouver(Canada) to fly into, but they don't make as much sense. To the north, there is nothing. There are a few other very small airports that you have to connect through Seattle to get to: Wenatchee, Yakima, and Walla Walla. These are small airports. They mainly function as cargo connections with an federal Essential Air Service subsidy that makes the route viable for Alaska to fly. Unless you have a rental car reservation at the time of booking a flight, you are making a huge gamble that you will be able to find transportation in the middle of nowhere. Although, you could maybe feasibly take a bus(elaborated in a later section) or a very expensive rideshare from Wenatchee as it is an hour long drive. Yakima has a bus connection, but it is 4 hours long, plus figuring out that last couple miles from the bus stop to the venue. Yakima is also an hour drive from the venue. Walla Walla has no public transportation options and is a 2.5 hour drive away.
Getting To the Venue By car
The only real way to get to the venue is by car, so you will need your own car, a rental, or to find a ride. Most people will be driving in from the east or west on I-90. If you come from the east, Moses Lake is your last real town to stop in for anything more than ice or overpriced beer. If you come from the west, Ellensburg is your last stop before the venue, period. Both the Silica Rd and Quincy exits work for getting to the venue, but the Silica Rd one is closest for those coming from the west and the Quincy exit for those from the east. Some people may arrive via US-2/WA-28 from the north. For you, Wenatchee is your last real town to stop in. For those coming from the south/Eugene/PDX, you will either come up US-97 through Yakima and Ellensburg, where Ellensburg is your last real down, or up through Tri-Cities, where Tri-Cities are your last real place to stop for anything. I believe that the policy allowing you to drive in and out of the campground is still in effect, so you can also leave to pick up people or more beer. For those parking at the Gorge and staying elsewhere, there is day parking at the venue, but it is not free. PLEASE BE AWARE THAT IF YOU DRIVE THROUGH A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION, STATE LAWS REGARDING MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION ARE NOT IN EFFECT THERE. YOU CAN BE ARRESTED BY TRIBAL POLICE FOR IT. A MAP OF TRIBAL LANDS CAN BE FOUND HERE.
By public transit
You can actually get surprisingly close to the venue just on public transit, though. A bus or Amtrak can be taken to Wenatchee or Ellensburg and then you can catch the Apple Line bus from there to the George or Quincy stops a few miles from the venue. You may be able to get a Lyft or something here, but you probably would need to find a ride from there or hoof it. I wouldn't advise this method, but if you have friends that can grab you on the way, this might work for you. Or you can get a ride to Ellensburg or Moses Lake on a bus and get a ride from there. Or maybe ride a bike the last little bit? Which brings me to...
By bicycle
I'm definitely not going to recommend this, but it is entirely feasible and legal to ride your bike to the venue. There is a rail trail from Seattle all the way to about Ellensburg. After that, it gets a little more difficult. It used to be you went across the rail bridge in Beverly to cross the river, but that's unsafe so you either have to contact Wanapum Dam to get permission to be walked across or find some way to make it across the shoulderless I-90 bridge. The bridge seems pretty dangerous, though. Yes, you are legally allowed to ride on I-90 for most of it's length, aside from areas listed in the applicable state laws(usually around Seattle). Again, I don't recommend this and might actually recommend against this, but it could be done. Be safe and take appropriate precautions if you do. You do this at your own risk.
By boat
Sorry, like the salmon, you're not getting upriver or downriver of those dams.
Getting Around
Most everyone will be doing a lot of walking. The venue, the campground, the venue's store, the path to the river that I'm-told-exists-but-haven't-quite-verified-yet-and-have-been-told-sucks-to-walk-down-anyways: all within walking distance. The paths are pretty dusty and rocky, so bring appropriate footwear. However, most of the campsites are on fairly soft grass. You could probably bring a bicycle to ride around if you wanted. There is that much space. There isn’t anything on the campground website that says you cannot bring a bike and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen them before, but double check by contacting the venue before you go to I'm not sure if a skate/longboard would work, though. Make sure to take stock of any flags or light poles around your campsite and get really familiar with some landmarks because it can be really difficult to find your way back at night. Or, bring your own flag pole and flags.
See
There is so much to see. Literally spin around and point in a direction and there's something cool that way. Take a moment to read this for a primer on the area the venue is in.
Natural
Dry Falls State Park: this is the largest waterfall on earth, with over three miles of ledge for water to run off of. Unfortuantely, it has been dry for thousands of years. Still amazing to see. A bit far, though.
Potholes Coulee: Not to be confused with Potholes State Park. This is a coulee where the ice age floods dug out some small ponds on the east short of the Columbia.
The Columbia River: yea, you can see it from the venue, but going down to it is different. Definitely worth seeing.
the night sky: If you feel like taking a walk, there's fairly little light pollution in the area compared to most places. You can do some pretty solid stargazing.
Ginkgo Petrified Forest: haven't been, but there is a petrified forest in Vantage that is ~15.5 million years old.
Moses Lake the actual lake: it’s a pretty sizeable lake/reservoir with some beaches
Manmade
There isn't much manmade stuff to see out here. There's a few dams(Wanapum and Grand Coulee spring to mind) and the Columbia Basin Project canals, but that's about it. Also, I'm pretty positive it is illegal to swim in the canals, so don't do that unless you've verified it is legal and safe to do so. However, if you are into planes, Boeing does run a flight facility in Moses Lake that sometimes sees test flights and currently is housing bunch of those 737-8 MAXs in storage until they aren’t grounded anymore. You can find more information on those here in this Google Doc that lists all the test flights. The Moses Lake airport code is MWH. Speaking of planes, the US Navy sometimes likes to give everyone a 9AM wakeup call by flying F/A-18 Hornets down the Gorge at low altitude. It’s quite a fucking sight to see them zipping over the campground close enough to see the hardpoints on the underside of the wing as it banks away from the campground.
Do Read the fucking book
Seriously, if you haven't by now, an afternoon at the Gorge is a great time to read it.
On/In the water
There are numerous places to go down to the river north and south of the venue, including the supposed path from the venue to the river(just drive if you can). Up in Crescent Bar, you can rent kayaks, jetskis, whatever you want. There are also some public beaches there. Bring some inflatable tubes and enjoy yourself! Although, the river is way too wide and too slow for actual tubing. Plus, there’s a dam downriver of the I-90 bridge, so be careful! There are a couple other places you can get to the river. Just give Google Maps satellite view a peek. Moses Lake the actual lake is also nearby and that's a pretty great place to go. Someone in one of the 2018 threads said they were chilling on the beach there and had pizza delivered to the beach they were on.
On land
There are tons of hiking and biking trails nearby. You can use WA Trail Association's trail finder map to find some. There are a couple wineries and orchards in the area, as well. I'm not sure what will be in season about then, but you can usually pick up produce at roadside stands. Prices may vary.
At the campground
There's the normal activities to do here: meet new people, people watch, drink, have fun, etc. A lot of people just relax around the campground.
Buy Necessities
For things like ice or beer, you can get them overpriced at the venue's store. Or you can run into Quincy or George. You have to go to Quincy or George if you need gas. For things like sunscreen, a tent, a growler refill, you will need to go to Ephrata, Moses Lake, or Ellensburg. If you need a growler refill, I can personally recommend Iron Horse Brewery in Ellensburg. Their Irish Death Ale will get you feeling nice and good, but it is dark and heavy.
Shakedown
Shakedown at the Gorge is awesome. Basically, it sets up in two legs that meet where the food trucks and larger shops are. You can find anything from a PB&J to a lot shirt to a new dab rig here. Bring cash for these purchases because it’s highly unlikely anyone takes credit cards. Activity on Shakedown usually peaks around 5-630PM before people start to head to the venue.
Marijuana
There are a lot of great pot shops in the state. However, the pickings get slim around the Gorge. Try and stop in a shop in a larger city or town on the way in or after you land. But, according to WeedMaps, there are a number of stores within 45 minutes of the venue. BUT REMEMBER MARIJUANA IS ILLEGAL ON TRIBAL LANDS.
Food Options
I typically bring most of my food as the options at the Gorge can be a bit pricy or nonexistant.
Food Trucks
Usually, it has been gyros, pizza, burgers, burritos, and that kind of stuff. Usually like five to seven food trucks. Also, if the churros are back, they're clutch as fuck for 2AM.
Shakedown
There's always people selling food here during the day. Pickings get slim after the show, though.
Nearby
There's a McD's, Westside Pizza, and some small places in Quincy but pretty much everything else is 45 minutes away.
The Actual Show and Inside the Venue
HERE is a map of the venue itself with important things marked out from my memory. If anyone knows anything I missed or if I got something wrong, let me know and I will update the map.
Security and Getting In
The security line starts filling up about an hour before the show and it can easily be a two-beer wait(read: 30 to 60 minutes) to get past security. All I will say about security is one time they got suspicious that I had a lighter and forgot my ciggs at my tent. Most of the time, they barely care that I have ciggs and a lighter. Please note that an unopened water bottle or an empty Nalgene are allowed in the show! AGAIN, BE CAREFUL ABOUT WHERE YOU SMOKE, FLICK YOUR ASH, AND DISPOSE OF YOUR CIGARETTE BUTTS AND JOINT ROACHES.
Finding a spot to watch the show
This is less about what is there and what you want. The venue is huge. I will say that if you are(all directions mentioned are if you are in the center of the lawn facing the stage) on the left side of the lawn, you will have a more direct view over the stage and down the Gorge towards Crescent Bar. If you are on the right side of the lawn, you’ll have a better view of the sunset over the wind farm on the ridge above the Gorge. If anyone has any definitive info on the pit in front of the stage, let me know. I have no experience with it.
What to Bring
I’ll throw it out there that the grass is genuinely kept well enough that you probably could get by without a blanket if you usually bring one to sit on on the lawn. There’s a 99.999% chance there will not be rain in the week before or during the run so there’s no need to worry about mud and they clean it pretty well of trash. Sunglasses are probably good, but you won’t need them for the second set and encore after the sun goes down. An unopened water bottle or an empty one(disposable or reusable) for water is always clutch. A headlamp for the portajohns in the 2nd set and encore would be really helpful because most of those portajohns are dark as hell after the sun goes down. Your boogie shoes.
Refreshments
I’ve marked them on the map. They’re pretty pricey like any concert venue. I can’t really think of anything particularly worth mentioning about them.
Bathrooms
Marked them on the map as well. In the venue, they’re actually pretty well taken care of and look alright until second set. Maybe bring a headlamp because the lighting inside can be nonexistent in the second set.
Camping/Lodging Options
There are a couple different options here.
Staying at the venue
There are a few different levels of camping:
Oasis: This is the five-star option. With like memory foam mattresses.
Glamping: They have four glamping setups at the venue.
Easy: Right next to the venue and they have a tent and sleeping bag all ready for you.
Terrace: Basically one level above Premiere. Better grass, a picnic table, a little closer, and (I believe) better access in and out with your car.
Gold: Never done this, but this is basically camping right next to the venue with bigger spots.
Premier: Basically regular camping, but with slightly bigger spots, free showers, a shuttle to the venue(which is kind of unnecessary IMO), and security to keep out your new friends and the spunions.
Family/ADA: I haven't seen anything on the website aside from the map, but there's usually a quiet/family camping section somewhere. Maybe it is gone this year. Contact the venue if you're interested.
Near the venue
There are several options near the venue for camping or lodging. For more traditional hotels or Airbnb, you can look around Quincy, Ephrata, Ellensburg, and Moses Lake. For nearby camping options, the two big ones are Wildhorse and Sage Creek. I have no experience at either, but I have heard them both highly recommended. They run shuttles to and from the venue so you can still come back and party with friends at the main campground and then go back to your relative peace and quiet at your campground after. Generally, I hear people talk about these as alternatives to premiere camping for those that like the show but are kind of past being woken up by intoxicated people outside their tents making noise at 4AM.
Camping Gear
A lot of this is the standard fare: tent, sleeping pad, sleeping bag, etc. Definitely try to bring a shade tent or at least a tarp. If you need camping gear because you are flying in, you can rent via back40outfitters or REI.
Sample Daily Schedule
This is a general idea of life at the Gorge:
4AM: Fall asleep
6AM: Wake up to the sun making things bright and roll over and go back to bed
9AM: Wake up to the heat and open the tent flap and go back to bed
10AM: Wake up because now it’s too hot even with the tent flap open
10-11AM: Recover from the night before
11AM-12PM: Figure out what to do today, maybe get a bite at the food trucks, smoke a bowl, have a little hair of the dog
12-3PM: Go down to the river, go into town, read a book, whatever
3-4PM: begin pregaming, maybe take a walk down Shakedown
4-5PM: start really pregaming, eat some food so not drinking on an empty stomach
5-6PM: pregame some more, maybe go down Shakedown again to see the partying
6-630PM: final checks for being ready and making sure we have everything, maybe more Shakedown
630-640PM: a little more pregaming
640-7PM: head over to the show
7-730PM: wait in security
730PM-8PM: find a beer, a spot, and wait for the show(7:30 show time so figure it’ll start at like 8)
8PM-1215AM: at the show
1225AM: start leaving
1225-1245AM: party on the way back
1245-115AM: regroup at campsite
115-230AM: walk around and meet people and have fun
230-245AM: late night munchies
245-330AM: more walking around
330-4AM: wind down at campsite and then pass out
Staying Comfortable
These are pro-tips for enjoying your time at the Gorge:
bring lots of sunscreen
bring sunglasses and probably a cheap pair or two of them for the shows
a headlamp for the portapotties in the dark is a lifesaver
bring some sort of shade because there is no shade at the campground beyond what you bring
bring lots of water and actually drink lots of water
a battery powered fan may be helpful
bring a shade tent or a tarp to make your own shade
have warm clothes for at night because it gets chilly and dewy
watch out for the dew at night
try and get a shower daily because the dust gets everywhere
bring back up shoes
bring and use wet wipes
bring ear plugs to block out late night noise and maybe a sleeping mask to block out the early morning sunshine
give yourself time to get to the venue because it is a bit of a walk and kind of on the slow side with everyone jammed into the walkway and security can take almost an hour sometimes
the lighting towers typically don’t shut off until like 3:30-5AM, so be aware of that when you’re pulling in for a spot. Staff may not let you move, but they may let you choose a spot farther away from the lighting. Or maybe you want to be there so everyone knows how to get back to your spot in the early morning
also, if you’re planning to be out late, be aware the lighting towers shut off around 3:30-5AM if you’re trying to navigate back to your campsite
the portajohns are typically cleaned once a day at around noon, although I think they might clean them again while the show is going. I haven’t confirmed the second cleaning, though
portajohns also usually have hand sanitizer but there’s been a few times they run out, especially on the last night
List of nice-to-have items
USB battery pack
Battery powered fan
Solar charger(you will get all the sun your charger can handle)
Shade tent/tarp
Warm pajama pants for chilly nights
Extra water(you might be surprised how quick it goes)
First aid kit
Sunburn gel/aloe
A hat because sunglasses can only do so much
Hand sanitizer
Staying Safe
First off: let me reiterate that EVERY SINGLE PERSON NEEDS TO BE MINDFUL OF WHERE YOU FLICK YOUR ASH AND DISPOSE OF JOINTS AND CIGARETTES. Also, this should be a fucking no-brainer, but I’ve seen people doing this before in the area of the venue at that time of year: DON’T SET OFF FUCKING FIREWORKS AT THE VENUE. YOU WILL LIKELY START A WILDFIRE AND ARE ENDANGERING THE REST OF THE PEOPLE AT THE SHOW. Firework embers can cause a house’s roof to catch fire. Catching dry brush on fire is far easier. Next: secure your tents and tarps. Coming back from the first show of the run is always funny because some phans didn't secure their tents thinking "Oh, well it's not windy now..." and didn't realize that the wind picks up after the sun goes down in the second set and now their tent has blown kind of far away. BRING STURDY STAKES AND PLENTY OF THEM. This is why. You can lock stuff in your tent, but likely locking it in your car is safer. And be smart about it. Don't leave a nice laptop sitting on your passenger seat. I haven't heard much about theft at the Gorge, but don't chance it. Drink lotssss of water. It is high desert. Water evaporates more quickly at higher altitudes than at sea level. Even though we aren’t that high up, combine the altitude with the dry air and you can get parched pretty fast. I debated adding this part, but in wake of what happened in 2018: Remember that two people were assaulted in a hate crime at the 2018 shows. If you see someone clearly starting shit and that is only there to cause trouble, avoid them and maybe consider saying something to staff/security. We are all there to have fun. People that are there to cause physical harm to others or harass anyone are not welcome. Security, medical services, and the Grant County Sheriff’s Department are on site to keep everyone safe and having fun. They will be out and about in the campground from time to time and will be at the venue itself. I think the only time I’ve ever had an interaction with them was when a sheriff’s deputy was walking the campgrounds and told my friend he couldn’t hit the bong in full public view and to please go do that in his tent. I have typically seen an ambulance stationed on site for the weekend, but don’t take that for granted. Another ambulance is probably 20-45 minutes away, at best. Any hospital is going to be 45 minutes away. And if you need serious medical treatment immediately, you might be getting med-evaced by a helicopter. It is that rural. Be safe. Cell phone service does work at the Gorge, but if it is an emergency and you dial 911, remember that you will likely be speaking with a state police operator elsewhere in the state. If you tell them you are at the Gorge, they may transfer you to a Grant County operator or continue taking the call.
Getting Out
Most all of you will be leaving the way you came. However, for those that are leaving early enough and feeling like they have enough energy to do some things, I have a few suggestions:
Go tubing on the Yakima or Snoqualmie rivers: they’re a bit chilly at this point in the year still, but worth it. Yakima is closer but a bit more of a difficult river to tube. Only go tubing if you feel comfortable and conditions are safe. You do so at your own risk.
Go for a hike: there are tons of hikes along I-90 in the Mt Baker-Snoqualmie Nat’l Forest. I recommend Snow Lake: there’s a ton of switchbacks, but it is fucking worth it. If you’re headed south, north, or east, there are also tons of hikes too. Down south, you can find some amazing hikes along the Columbia near The Dalles. Remember to observe proper hiking safety.
Do some more camping: there are tons of great campground up and down the Columbia and pretty much everywhere you look. Don’t just look at National Park and Forest campgrounds, though. There are county PUD campgrounds, state DNR campgrounds, state park campgrounds, private campgrounds, and all sorts of stuff.
Check out Wenatchee: it’s a small city more known for apple orchards, but it’s pretty nice
Check out Chelan: if you have some extra time and want to hit a real summer lake destination, Chelan is it. It’s fucking gorgeous up there.
Check out Leavenworth: this town is literally a slice of Bavarian alpine towns in WA. It’s not October so no Oktoberfest, unfortunately, but it is a nice place.
Check out Tolmie Peak: the view is "incredible, and all around, full 360°, not just Mt. Rainier." Screenshot the map beforehand as there is no cell service and be prepared for swarms of mosquitos Photo of the view
Drive through Idaho and don’t stop: seriously, you’re probably better off if you have to go through Idaho to just not stop if you don’t have to. Idaho’s slogan is jokingly “Come on vacation, leave on probation”. Enough said.
If you flicked a cigarette butt or joint roach and caught something on fire, you’re probably getting out via the back seat of a police vehicle
Head to Tahoe. Really, this is what we all want to be doing, isn’t it?
Q&A Below this reserved for editing in any questions people asked that I may have missed. EDIT: Hi, just wanted to say that I encourage donating to a charity, like Waterwheel Foundation or Doctors Without Borders, instead of gifting me Reddit silver or gold! That said, thank you to whoever gifted me silver! Thanks to the following for contributing:
My tale of almost getting caught -- can anyone here top this?
One of the members here asked this question: Anyone wanna share stories of times SO’s spidey senses were tingling and you had to do damage control? This happened many many years ago, when I was new to the "being married" life. My wife and I went to South Lake Tahoe and we were sitting together playing roulette. It was decent occupancy...all the tables were full, but not so crowded that I could not get a view of people around and about. I caught sight of a blonde stunner walking past the craps table, and she turned the corner, the casino lane took her toward our table. I was trying very hard not to stare, but this woman was simply one of the most gorgeous babes I've ever seen. Imagine Tiffany Coyne from "Let's Make A Deal" (yes, I go gaga for skinny blonde Barbies!) 🔥❤️ As she approached our table, I wondered if she was an escort. Or maybe she was already with someone and was just browsing the scene alone while her man was gambling somewhere else. She casually gazed over our table and then kept walking at a slow but steady pace. And then she passed us and was out of sight. She never made eye contact with me, so I figured she wasn't looking for company. But with my wife sitting right next to me, maybe she didn't want to waste her time with me? I couldn't think about what numbers I wanted to bet anymore, lol...I was struck with a huge dose of sexual uneasiness...my mind was wandering and I began daydreaming about her. These lingering thoughts can be so pleasurable in and of itself, and I was shifting so much in my seat that my wife asked me if I needed to use the bathroom! I said no and we continued to play. 10 minutes later, I could see the blonde again...walking the same route as she did before. I was going to get to enjoy another chance of this eye candy, and as I looked around at the others, it boggled my mind how nobody else was really looking at her. When people are deeply in their gambling and smoking and drinking, I suppose sex isn't high on the list! But being the nymph that I am, I could not resist. This time, I made a conscious effort to stare. And this time she made eye contact with me! She gave a very quick and sweet smile, and proceeded to keep walking. Again, she went out of sight. At this point, I was 50% sure that she was a high-priced escort. But there were too many unknowns to be 100% for sure. I needed more clues. I was hoping that she would walk around a third time, so that I can stare at her again and perhaps give her some flirty or inviting gesture to indicate that I'm interested. But she never came by again. After about 20-30 minutes, I didn't see her so I figured she left...maybe with somebody else or went to play slots or her room. Who knows. But my wife wanted to play something else so we grabbed our chips and left the roulette table. She went to play slots and I went to cash in the chips. Near the cashier's cage, there was a hallway that led to the restrooms. And at a short distance, I saw the blonde...and she was looking my way. I took my cash and proceeded toward the bathroom...staring at this beauty all the way. She and I locked eyes and she just blurted it out, "Hey I saw you looking at me." I thought she was going to be mad for staring, but before I could say sorry, she asked me if I wanted company! I was like... JACKPOT!!!!!! She asked if I had a room, and I said yes. I gave her the room number and told me to meet me on that floor near the elevator. But first, I needed to go tell my wife that I will be playing in the slot area too, and I made up some bullshit thing like don't come look for me because I believe it's bad luck if I have someone next to me when I'm playing the slots. She said ok. I took the elevator to my floor and when the doors opened, there she was! Did I fucking die and go to heaven? She gave me this soft hug and her body felt so nice to hold. Whatever perfume she was wearing was smelling very nice! I gently squeezed the small of her back toward me...I made sure she could feel "my excitement" in her crotch area. She was wearing a tight thin dress, so I knew she felt me. I held her hand and led her to my room. When we got inside the room, she confessed that she and her husband had lost a lot of money at Harrahs, and she was very pissed off at him. And she asked me if I would be willing to help her out. Well, at least she wasn't an escort, but nothing was going to stop me now. This was a Tiffany Coyne lookalike...and I'm fucking this woman 👉👌💦come hell or high water! I don't want to go into details, but there was no clock watching or hastiness. We took out sweet time, and I enjoyed every inch of her body. I was so built-up that I couldn't hold my cum in anymore...and ended up shooting it deep down her throat when she was sucking. But I was still hard as a rock and we kept going. We did several positions for the next 30-40 minutes.....then she got on top of me to ride me...but after about 5 minutes into that, my worst nightmare looked like it was going to happen! Someone was trying to open my hotel door! The blonde suddenly stopped riding me...I pushed her off me and jumped toward the door to hold it closed! My wife was on the other side saying, "Hey! Why aren't you letting me in?" The blonde was hiding behind the side of the bed...naked and looking worried...and I motioned her to stay quiet. I cried to my wife, I can't let you in! She kept trying to use her electronic key to open the door and I kept pushing it closed again, and she shouted, "Why not?" I repeated, "I can't! Go back downstairs! I'll meet you there!" She replied, "No, I'm tired! I want to come in the room!" I was literally feeling like this is the end...I'm gonna get caught...it's over. But suddenly, the words just came out, "I can't let you in...it's embarrassing" She asked, "What's so embarrassing??!!" I told her, "I pooped all over the floor" She asked in disbelief, "WHAT?!" I told her that I think something I ate or drank gave me diarrhea and I ended up shitting my pants before getting to the toilet, and I just want to clean it all up before letting her in. I glanced over at my blonde friend, who was trying her best to control her laughing. "Can you please go downstairs and wait until I'm done?" My wife laughed and said, "Okay, I'll be at the roulette table" The blonde and I resumed our fucking...it seemed more special after that incident...I guess we bonded being partners in crime? I didn't want to risk my wife coming back up, so I told her let's finish this and fuck me in my favorite position... the reverse cowgirl. When I was about to cum, I pushed her off and splattered her face. We both laughed so hard about what had happened earlier, and soon thereafter, we kissed and parted ways. Wish I had asked for her number...ah, my one regret! Then, to cover my tracks, I did the unthinkable. I squatted and took a shit on the carpet by the hotel door! I rubbed the shit into the fibers and onto the tile leading to the toilet. I did a half-ass job with the cleaning, so as to prove to my wife that I did have uncontrollable diarrhea. Fuck, the room smelled awful! But it had to be done. I got a $150 cleaning fee from the hotel later, but that was one expense I was more than happy to pay! My wife never did suspect anything, and to this day, I still think that this was the closest I ever came to ruining it with her. Such are the dangers of this lifestyle 😬
I know I tend to post a lot here. I'm not good at remembering user names, but I have talked to a few of you in DMs, and a couple I have told this theory to. I was looking around Lake Tahoe on Google maps one day while researching this and I accidentally found this place, then did a little research, and a theory developed. I haven't seen it anywhere else, and the couple people I told said the same. So I will present it here. I'm not a nut, I'm not pushing an agenda. This is just from basic research I did on the place. If anyone wants to run with this and look into town records, by all means. Go for it. I am too busy in real life to do so. Here it is.. The "Paradice” Theory Paradise, CA. Nestled in a lush pine glade next to Plumas National Forest. Population of around 25,000 people here in 2018; in 1968 it was a little below 14,000. Scenic and beautiful, it is a small town in Butte County above Sacramento Valley. Its first post office was established in 1877. For a very long period of its existence, it didn’t get its justice on maps, and finally incorporated in 1979. Before then, its existence was likely unknown to much of California. Local legend carries to this day from its humble beginnings. A saloon started it all, where men came to gamble and drink. This saloon was named Pair’o’Dice Saloon. Back then, its railroads were its only identifier to the outside world, and an official 1900 railroad map referred to it simply as “Paradice.” Depending on who you ask, this legend is not true, but to its residents, it seems to be. Local legend swallows any town’s mentality, and creates believers when only faith is present. To these people, “Paradice” was home. Paradise has its fair share of all the amenities most places can afford. There are schools, a police station, health care, fire station, shopping centers. It really is a humble place, small and quaint. They have their own library, which also keeps records of high school yearbooks and past town events. They even now have their own facebook to keep the same history tight knit and within their community. But is it possible that someone in that community hid a dark secret? People believe the Zodiac may have died, and it is entirely possible. Though, if the public stopped listening to the things he wanted to make known and sensationalized, perhaps he just moved on and gave up his ways. After all, the one determining factor most Zodiac followers can agree on, he did it more for the fame itself than the killings. He was clumsy, didn’t seem to like or enjoy the killings, unless it was toward a woman. He failed in some of his killings, he taunted and did not follow through with his threats. When the public stopped caring, he may have slinked into the darkness for a few years, then tried again with a letter, and saw poor reception. The possibility of Z’s hinting was strong. He was not going to give his name up, but he did leave so many clues that seem obvious red herrings, but perhaps he knew people might receive them that way. He seemed to be an avid follower of crime fiction and westerns. He loved the cryptic nature of his communications. He was a movie buff, comic book buff, and the likes. His weird symbols always seem to come from some sort of comic book cover. The strange symbol from the Avery letter, the Zodiac symbol itself, even his “BY KNIFE, etc” came from comic book covers. It was his favorite thing to do: create a mystery by literally just throwing out the first strange detail he saw in a comic, and watch it confound investigators and amateurs alike for decades. Because of the internet, we now get to find some interesting facts about any place we want. Let’s take a look at his possible Paradise. Next to Paradise, in Chico, CA, there is a Navy Recruiting Office and an Air Force Recruiting Office, a short 20 minutes drive from home. Further south is Beale Airforce Base. The Zodiac was believed to be in the Air Force, specifically, due to his wing walker boots, size 10. In Chico, there is a place called Gates Resale Army Surplus, founded in 1944, in which to obtain military garb and footwear. These are geographical links, which are tenuous at best, as there are Naval and Air Force Bases all around California. Some more generalities will take you to look into his psyche. Many researchers of Serial Killers see that they do not kill in their own locale. They in fact try and kill away from all signs of their locale, as to throw off their scent. Each kill was made near some sort of body of water. In Paradise, there’s a few ponds, and a lake, but not much water elsewhere. The Zodiac killed in a way that showed familiarity for some places, and unfamiliarity with others. The way he guided police to Lake Herman Road was unfamiliar, but killing Paul Stine a block away from his destination (and likely where his getaway car was) shows he was familiar with that area. It is possible he worked a job that required him to travel, so he’d have basic geography without getting lost, and thus possibly getting caught. Riding by car, it is about:
2 and a half hour ride to Blue Rock Springs, Vallejo.
2 and a half hour ride to Lake Herman Road, Benicia.
3 hour ride to Lake Berryessa outside of Napa.
3 and a half hour ride to Presidio Heights, San Francisco.
3 and a half hour ride to South Lake Tahoe, CA.
If you believe in the Donna Lass theory, which thanks to Tom Voigt’s poor PR, we don’t have any for-sure way to tell is real or a forgery letter of Zodiac, then there’s another interesting point about Paradise. There is also a small community. A village of real estate, north of Paradise, resting just outside the Megalia Reservoir. This is a community known as Paradise Pines. It reaches north to Paradise Lake, and eastward toward the aforementioned Plumas National Forest. By giving the “Peek Through the Pines” letter, we could be getting a literal glimpse into where the Zodiac is from, all the while believing it to be a direct clue to where he’s killing instead. He may very well be from the community of Paradise Pines, where one would peek through the pines to see the magnificent views of the national forest and nearby Paradise Lake; and eluding to us that he merely stalked Donna from near South Lake Tahoe. He said in one of his threatening communications that he would quit announcing his kills, and instead make them look like accidents and such. With Donna Lass disappearing, if this were in fact Zodiac, there are a few other locales that contain possible victims of his. All of these locales are also short distances away from Paradise. March 7, 1970. Judith Hakari, age 22, from Arden-Arcade in Sacramento, CA. A short 2 hour drive away from Paradise. Like Lass, she was a nurse, and like Lass she was taken from her car. Unlike Lass, she was found. She was strangled with enough force to break bones in her neck, and her head and face were bashed in to near unrecognizable levels of brutality. When she was found, there was no sign of sexual assault. On April 10, a letter from Zodiac claimed 10 victims. October 25, 1970. Nancy Bennallack, age 27. Sacramento, CA. A short 1 hour and 45 minute drive away from Paradise. She lived less than a mile from Hakari. She was found in her apartment, she was stabbed many times and her throat was cut so bad she was nearly decapitated (if you believe in the Riverside connection, she was killed in an identical way to Cheri Jo). She was not sexually assaulted. During this attack, the attacker was cut and his DNA has a profile built, and in a national database. November 13, 1970. Carol Beth Hillburn, age 22. Sacramento, CA. Again, a short 1 hour and 45 minute drive away from Paradise. She had her throat cut and was beaten so viciously, her dental records were her only way to be identified. She was found nearly nude in a field where a car had dragged her before she was beaten to death. There were no signs of sexual assault. She was killed one month before Zodiac claimed in a letter his 17th (“+”) victim. A day before she was killed, she went with a friend to a club called Zodiac. As Z liked to use “holidays” and special days, the day she was killed was a Friday the 13th. The Zodiac claimed to have killed likely more than the actual body count. 37 people in total. It would be a good indicator if Paradise had seen no homicides or maybe even one homicides from the period of 1968 to 1974 that the Zodiac may be from this locale, meaning he didn’t want to kill too close to home. It could also mean it’s just a peaceful place to live. There is literally no telling. Many members of law enforcement believed he was not from the Bay Area, while many believed he was. Conflicting opinions have been the bane of this case since its start. Regardless what anyone believes, nobody knows truly anything of where the Zodiac resides; and all this talk of Paradise, of course, is just a theory.
Questions about itinerary South-West USA road trip
Hi! So 3 friends and I, from Europe, are planning a trip for 22 days / 21 nights the the South-West of the USA in July 2019. We already booked our plane-tickets and a rental car. There is so much to see in this region. And we are all first timers in this region of the states, for some it's even the first trans-Atlantic travel. So some help with the concept itinerary I've got now would help! We're planning on camping in tents most of the time and stay in hotels in the cities. So here it goes: Day 1: Arrive in Los Angeles and go to hotel and rest. Day 2: Full day in Los Angeles Day 3: Full day in Los Angeles Day 4: Drive from LA to Joshua Tree NP, spend the day and night here. Day 5: Drive from Joshua Tree NP trough the Mojave Desert towards Las Vegas and stay at a hotel over there. Day 6: Full day in Vegas Day 7: Rise early and head onto the Grand Canyon via the Hoover dam and Route 66, spend the rest of the day at the Grand Canyon NP and stay the night here. Day 8: Maybe a early morning hike in the canyon. Now it gets tricky, we drive towards Monument Valley or to Page, can't decide yet. Day 9: When we stay in monument valley do horseshoe-bend at page, maybe antelope canyon but I have doubts whether it is worth it. Head to Bryce Canyon were we will stay the night. We could fit an extra night at Page if it is worth the sacrifice. Day 10: In the morning, a nice hike in Bryce Canyon, around noon head to Zion NP, stay the night there. Day 11: Full day at Zion NP Day 12: Morning in Zion, head out to Death Valley in the noon, spend the night in Death Valley Day 13: Early rise in Death Valley, get out before noon because of the heat and head towards Yosemite NP, stay the night there. Day 14: Full day at Yosemite Day 15: Morning to spend time at Yosemite and drive in the noon towards Lake Tahoe, spend the night here. Day 16: Full day at Lake Tahoe, not gambling but enjoying the nature and some activity on the water. This day could be sacrificed for an extra day at Page Day 17: Enjoy the morning at Lake Tahoe, end spend half a day here and then drive off towards San Francisco to spend the night. Day 18: Full day in San Francisco Day 19: Full day in San Francisco Day 20: Drive towards Monterey and the Big Sur, spend the night at the Big Sur. Day 21: Drive from the Big Sur towards Santa Maria, don't really know what we could do here. Day 22: Get up and drive towards Los Angeles, turn in the Rental and Head to LAX for our flight back home. So this is a rough itinerary we've got now. We are planning on booking the stays in hotels in LA, LV and SF. I know we have to reserve a place at National Parks six months in advance, for Yosemite it is 15th of March online reservations madness. I read there is only first come first served at Bryce. Do you think we need to reserve for the rest of the places we're staying at? Furthermore, do you think we are missing out on something or something is off on the itinerary!? Would love to have some feedback. Thanks in advance!
Back when I was about 11 years old, we were living in Palm Springs California. My father would move us about every 4 to 6 months. Why? Well, he was a drinker and gambler, so I think he was avoiding bookies. Anyway, we would start out in Santa Monica California, then move up to Redwood City California (near San Francisco), then over to South Lake Tahoe, then down to Palm Springs, and then back over to Santa Monica. This continued for many years, until we finally moved to Tacoma Washington, and my mom finally left my dad for good, then his roaming days stopped. Anyway, at age 11, it was Winter, and during the Winter in Palm Springs, there were storms. Monsoons really. It would rain harder than anywhere else I've been, and the sky would turn black, and the wind would kick up really bad. I remember one night, the wind was particularly strong, and it knocked the shingles off the motel roof we were staying in (we lived in motels a lot...they were cheaper than apartments back then). Anyway, after the shingles were blown off the roof, I looked over toward the mountain, and I noticed a large red "orb" forming in the black sky, near the mountain. Not on the mountain, but near it. Blood red orb. Suddenly, the orb BURST out towards the East, like a bunch of red "waves" real fast, and made a huge TRUMPET sound as it did it. Then I saw an orange orb due North form, and it BURST forth with "waves" of orange light to the South, and as it did that it made a huge trumpet sound. Then I saw a greenish/purple orb to the South form, and it BURST forth a series of waves towards the north, and, as it did so, made the sound of a loud trumpet. I was scared as hell, and looked at my Dad and called out: "Dad! Dad! What are those?" My Dad said, "Oh, just some atmopheric phenomenon". Of course, my Dad never went to college. He was a waiter and cook. He didn't know anything about the weather. I've studied the weather, not in school, but online and in books for decades, and I can't find anything to explain the orbs, other than "ball lightening" which most think is a myth. Why was one red, the other orange, and the third greenish/purple? Why the sound? No answers. All I know, it was very very strange. Now, move up from age 11 until age 54. I'd been taking care of my dad for four years straight, and he just died. I was his caretaker for four years, but did not get paid (he made too much money for the State to pay me anything). I got room and board for taking care of him. He gambled away the rest. He got $5,000 a month tax-free, for 32 years, and he had saved up "zero". He drank and gambled it all away. All of it. Well, after he died, I had nothing. No savings. Nothing. I had a car. I tried to get a job, but nobody hired me. One said: "We don't hire felons". He assumed I had no work history for four years because I've been to prison. Wrong. Never arrested. Anyway, I'm one week away from living on the street, and I'm in a sleeze bag crack-whore infested motel room in Portland Oregon; living on my last dime. I'm under so much stress, I've been up for three weeks. No, not because of drugs. I have chronic insomnia, which gets worse when I'm under stress. So, after being awake for about a month, I go, using the last twenty dollars I have, and I guy some Nyquil, and I also buy two boxes of over-the-counter sleeping pills. So, I drink the entire bottle of nighttime Nyquil, and I open the two boxes and I take all forty sleeping pills. All at one time. And I wait. Did I go to sleep? No. Did I get tired in the least? NO! I did get a super major headache, which felt like my frontal lobe was "ice". Like a migraine on steroids. But I was not tired in the least. So, I lay down and I try to go to sleep, and I hear what sounds like a trumpet sound, and I look over to the window, and drapes were closed, and I see these bright "lights" start flying around the big window, and they started to make LOUD sounds of trumpets blasting, and this continued for about five minutes, then the lights disappeared. I know, I know, you're gonna say "hallucination". Yep, that explains everything. Was I hallucinating as a 11 year old kid, about the orbs over Palm Springs, too? Even my Dad saw that.
35 DAY LA->PCH->SF->Yosemite->Tahoe->Crater Lake -> Portland -> Seattle -> Yellowstone -> Grand Teton -> Salt Lake -> Bryce -> Zion -> Vegas
Hello! This post follows a previous request for advice about 9 months ago Here! redditeria, towcrew and CharlesBronsonsaurus provided us with some amazing advice and that has helped us plan and BOOK our trip. Now some slightly more refined advice would be hugely appreciated. I want this to be a high quality post and as such, it will be a long one! A bit of background: Me (21) and gf (21) have booked the flights from UK and car hire extending 35 days and our time plan is as below. We arrive early June and leave early August. We have been unable to commit to any dates earlier than now and so have not been able to reserve any campsites in any of the national parks, we are aware that we now intend to travel at PEAK TIME and campsites can be a nightmare. Advice appreciated. The loose plan, exact dates omitted for obvious reasons:
Arrive approx. lunchtime LA, that afternoon and two further days in LA (Hotels)
3 Days on Pacific Coast Highway (details unplanned so far), (Motels/Hotels),
3 Days in San Francisco (Hotels),
A mornings drive to Yosemite, that afternoon and 2 further days in Yosemite (Camping)
1 day leisurely drive through Yosemite (taking everything in) towards South Lake Tahoe (Camping/Lodging),
1 day a South Lake Tahoe (Camping/Lodging),
1 day leisurely drive to Crater Lake (Camping/Lodging),
1 day at Crater Lake (Camping/Lodging),
1 day leisurely drive to Portland,
2 days in Portland (Hotels),
A mornings drive to Seattle, that afternoon and 2 further days in Seattle,
2 days leisurely drive to Yellowstone National Park (Motels/Hotels),
2 days Yellowstone National Park (Camping),
2 days Grand Teton National Park (Camping),
A mornings drive and that afternoon in Salt Lake City (Hotel),
A mornings drive to, that afternoon and 1 further day in Bryce National Park (Camping),
A mornings drive to, that afternoon and 1 further day in Zion National Park (Camping),
A mornings drive to, that afternoon and 2 further days in Las Vegas,
Fly home!
In total 35 full days, 16 nights planned for camping/lodging, 20 nights planned for hotels/motels. At LEAST 4000miles to drive. Map Why am I here? Obviously, having a loose idea of what we would like to achieve with the trip is only the first step. Where to stay: Hotels: We have found the majority of our accommodation already, but would appreciate any suggestions for our 2 day (1 night) drive from Seattle to North Yellowstone. Geographically a good place looks like Spokane, but I have no idea what’s around. Camp sites: Leaving our booking so late we have been unable to reserve any places at state camp sites. I have read that as long as you arrive before mid-afternoon, getting a place at a private camp site is usually possible, but this makes me nervous. I have also read that staying a little further out (at a national forest camp site) can work too. Obviously, this still feels risky. So given the time period we plan to travel, is there any advice for private camp sites or hidden gems at all camp venues. Preferably that would allow us to reserve. (Yosemite NP, South Lake Tahoe, Crater Lake, Grand Teton NP, Yellowstone NP, Bryce NP, Zion NP) What to do: Once again, I am posting this before we book anything because I feel like the advice I get here could be instrumental in making the trip as good as it can be. We are looking to get a solid mix of the natural wonders of the national parks with the buzz and excitement of the cities. Here are some ideas we have: Los Angeles We plan on spending our arrival afternoon collecting and organising ourselves for the trip. We need to buy a tent, two rolls mats, sleeping bags and comforts (pillows etc). (Any advice on a store would be greatly appreciated!) The following two days, the gf would like to do a bit of a Hollywood excursion and get an eye in on some A-listers. I want to spend some time in the city but have not looked in depth at anything in particular that I want to do. Naturally we also want to go and spend some time at the beach too. Pacific Coast Highway We opted to spend 3 days on the road so that we did not feel at all rushed along the way. I know for certain I want to spend half a day at the Monterey Bay Aquarium as well as plenty of the journey time stopping when we feel in awe of the scenery. We want to stop and get some time in at Big Sur but outside of that any advice is appreciated. All the same we feel like the scenery might speak for itself here. Our two nights stay are Morro Bay and Monterey. San Francisco Our time in San Francisco coincides with a big American holiday in early July , so anywhere particularly spectacular to enjoy that? Further from that, we have reviewed a few 48hrs in San Fran guides but as per the rest of the post, advice GREATLY appreciated! (we have already looked into and provisionally booked Alcatraz) Yosemite Very dependent on our camping situation, we plan to spend half a day stumbling our own way around just exploring and the next two days doing planned hikes. We are both fairly fit but don’t want to exhaust ourselves (Half-Dome really appeals to me, but I worry the difficulty could be excessive) any advice on this front? I have checked out AllTrails and know there are scenic hikes of all abilities, but does personal recommendations always feel more valuable. Lake Tahoe GF has it in her head that she would like to paddle board on Tahoe, I love the idea, has anyone got any experience? Which company is best? Do we need to pay for lessons and a tour, or just paddle board hire? Any help appreciated. Crater Lake No real plan here other than get onto a trail and take in the scenery. Anything particularly special? We have looked at Mt. Scott as the hike seems relatively easy and the views rewarding. Portland Voodoo doughnuts, Aerial tram, the Chinese and Japanese gardens are top of the list for Portland. Other than that, we are hoping to `explore as we go’ a little bit. Coffee shops, bars, markets anything you can recommend. Seattle We haven’t planned much for Seattle yet. The market and the space needle are obvious choices, but we are there for a while so hope to experience a little more. We are staying quite central in town. Long Drive East So far all we have planned is a stop at Palouse Falls on the way and a drive through (possibly stay in) Lolo National forest. Any advice on what to see or where to stay would be appreciated. Yellowstone/Grand Teton Treating the four days across these two NPs as one event since they essentially merge into each other. Looked at a few trails on AllTrails but once again would appreciate anyones input At least one day we want to spend doing a horseback tour (any good trails and/or ranches?) We want to see the wildlife and the scenery here most of all, so as usual, I hope that the experience in this subreddit can offer some gems. Salt Lake We’re coming through Salt Lake partly because we want to see it and partly to get a night in a hotel to get some real rest between a lot of nights camping. We aren’t here for long so would appreciate advice on what we can do for half a day. Bryce/Zion Treating the four days across these two NPs as one event since they essentially merge into each other. We certainly want to trek the narrows on Zion, we also want to experience `The Wave’ a little further south, but any advice on particular trails etc? I have read a little on permits required in the area to walk (I don’t think I will be able to get one to the wave) and I don’t really understand. Any explanation of the permit system would be appreciated. Although, I assume it is just to keep traffic low? Vegas I think at this point we are looking to stop thinking and just take in the weirdness and extravagance of Vegas, we will likely relax a lot and do a little Gambling. Essentially a very touristy approach to Vegas. As ALWAYS, I know a lot of you have `been there, done that’ and that is the experience I really hope to draw on. I don’t want to plan a touristy trip along the west coast of the US, I want to really experience the best of our route. This post is early in the process, almost all of my attention is now on planning this trip, I will continue to do my research and update this thread as I come across useful information. In the mean time I will appreciate in ways difficult to describe ANY tips/advice you can offer. I don’t want this to read as if I don’t want to my own research, because that is not the case. I just want to try and tap into what I consider to be one of the most valuable resources online. Please, if you can offer any help with any or all of this post, I would be forever grateful. Thanks! TL;DRIf you can offer any advice on Lodges/Campsites or things to do which are interesting and not necessarily overdone at any of the locations in the plan, please, please, allow me learn from your experience and share your advice. PS When we finish up in Vegas we will no longer have use for the majority of our camping equipment, so if anyone is due to start from Vegas at the start of August, we could potentially hand it over!
Weekly Summary (Apr 21 - Apr 27, 2017) UNRESOLVED MYSTERIES Hi everyone, Hope you have a wonderful week. Thanks for the gold on last week's summary. Take care and stay safe. ✌ ♥ ☺ Last week's summary (April 14 - April 20, 2017) UPDATES
October 23, 1979 - Harry (53) and Mollie Schlesinger (54) were shot and killed in Austin, Texas (US). Harry and his wife Mollie ran a liquor store and had been preparing to close their shop for the night when an assailant(s) robbed the store and then shot the couple dead. Police later informed the victims’ family that serial killers Henry Lee Lucas and Ottis Toole confessed to the murders. However, some of the family doubted the validity of these claims due to some glaring inconsistencies in the case. The case is personal to one Reddit contributor Bamont because his grandmother was one of the victims of this horrible crime. What happened on that night? (UPDATE:) Some commenter's from the Unresolved Mysteries community offered their assistance in helping Bamont. In particular, Hotblueglue researched the case and found...
December 1, 1981 - Virginia Freeman (40) was found dead beaten with stab wounds and a broken neck in College Station, Texas (US). Virginia was a real estate agent and mother, who was also actively involved in giving back to her community. Virginia was on her way to dinner when she received a call from work about a man wanting to see a house in a secluded area. The man had a southern accent and said he was carrying a large amount of cash. Hoping to make a sale, Virginia left alone to meet the potential client and was never seen alive. What happened to Virginia? (UPDATE:) National Geographic Explorers were contacted and agreed...Who did this to Virginia?
March 14, 2015 - Cristie S. Codd (38) and Joseph "JT" Codd (45) disappeared from their home in Leicester, North Carolina (US). Cristie was a respected chef, who provided catering services to film crews. She was five months pregnant and had recently appeared in the 8th season of the reality show "Food Network Star." Her husband, JT, worked as a key grip in filmmaking. FYI, a key grip collaborates with the director of photography in productions and supervises all "grip (lighting and rigging) crews" (Wikipedia). The couple had hired their neighbor, Robert Jason Owens, as a contractor to do some work in their home. "Owens robbed, assaulted and threatened the couple with weapons before killing them." He would later admit to dismembering their bodies to conceal evidence (CBS News). Robert J. Owens is still a person of interest in the disappearance of Zebb Quinn (UPDATE:) Robert Owens has accepted a plea deal in the murders of JT Codd and Cristie, and...Will this provide any new information on Zebb?
March 17 - July 11, 2016 - Maryvale (Phoenix) Serial Shooter - "an unidentified serial killer who has been linked to nine separate shootings resulting in seven deaths and two injuries across Phoenix, Arizona (US) in 2016, mainly in the Maryvale neighborhood" (Wikipedia). The shooter's attacks seem to be random, and he targets people who are walking outside or standing/sitting by their homes or cars. Who is the killer? (UPDATE:) Person of interest identified in this... The post originally stated that the Phoenix Serial Shooter was arrested; however, at this time he had only been publically identified by law enforcement.Maryvale Serial Shooter
THE MISSING
May 1, 1982 – Diana L. Munyon (16) disappeared from Fontana, California (US). Diana formerly lived in Mississippi but had left home at a young age and frequently hitchhiked with truckers. There isn’t very much information about her on the net; however… What happened to Diana?
May 26, 1982 - Yolanda Jean Maull (30) disappeared from Birmingham, Alabama (US). She was originally from Knoxville, Tennessee and had graduated from Knoxville College. Yolanda was in the middle of a divorce and had planned to be in court on the day she disappeared. On the morning she vanished, Yolanda spoke to her attorney and was never... What happened to Yolanda?
June 6, 1984 - Sherry L. Marler (12) disappeared from Greenville, Alabama (US). Sherry was a tomboy, who enjoyed farm life. She was last seen with her stepfather at a local First National Bank. Sherry had walked across the street alone to buy soda and never returned. There have been multiple sighting of Sherry with an older man... Never Posted
July 2, 1989 – Barbara Elizabeth Miller (30) disappeared from Milton, Pennsylvania (US). Barbara was a police informant, who had recently received anonymous threats before she went missing. She was last seen attending a wedding, and police believe she made it home safely from the wedding that day. Her live-in boyfriend reported her missing three days later… What happened to Barbara?
October 24, 1998 - Kristine Kupka (28) disappeared from Brooklyn, New York (US). Kristine was an honor student majoring in Philosophy at Baruch College in New York. Kristine was romantically linked to her former Chemistry instructor from school, Darshanand Persaud, who was recently married to another woman. Kristine was pregnant with his child, and Darshanand had not been supportive of her decision to keep the baby. Shortly before she vanished, Darshanand had a change of heart and Kristine was last seen with him... Where is Kristine?
December 7th, 2001 - Janine Vaughan (31) disappeared from Bathurst, New South Wales (Australia). Janine worked as a store manager and had a large group of friends. On the day she vanished, Janine took a cab to meet up with some friends at two different bar and grills. At some point in the night, she lost her purse with her phone and wallet. Janine didn't want to end the party on her bad luck. So while they were leaving the second establishment, she yelled something out to her friends about getting more drinks and then jumped into an unknown person's car before they could question her (Western Advocate). Janine has never...Discuss
February 23, 1999 - Shannon Clair LaBau (23) disappeared from Helena, Montana (US). Shannon was a father and a cook, who was close to his mother. On the day he vanished, he had planned to look into buying a car in the nearby city of Townsend. Shannon's friend picked him up that day and claims to have dropped him off later on the street in Helena that morning. Shannon has never been seen again. What happened to Shannon?
July 14, 2003 - Revell Jeeter (59) disappeared from McConnellsburg, Pennsylvania (US). Revell was a divorced father and an introvert, who preferred the company of his dog Bubba to most people. On the day he vanished, it appeared as though Revell had walked out of his home to do something but never returned. His wallet and cell phone were found inside, and his three cars were parked nearby. Revell's family and friends told law enforcement that he'd never leave his dog alone for an extended period. Police later found his ATV at a neighbor, Gregory Rouzer's, home. The neighbor had claimed he was fixing the... What happened to Revell?
July 5, 2007 - Monica Renee Bowie (34) disappeared from Atlanta, Georgia (US). Monica owned two different businesses and sometimes worked in accounting. Monica’s fiance was in prison on drug charges when she vanished. She was abducted from her apartment complex late at night. Witnesses heard her screams and then saw a maroon car drive off... Missing in Georgia
January 1, 2008 - Amy Fitzpatrick (15) is an Irish teen who disappeared from Riveria del Sol, Costa del Sol (Spain). Amy was last seen leaving a friend's home that night. She lived with her mother and stepfather, the latter who she despised. Amy's stepfather, Dave Mahon, had been accused and later convicted of stabbing her brother in an angry confrontation outside their home. What happened to Amy?
February 23, 2010 - Tameka Anderson (25) disappeared from Baton Rouge, Louisiana (US). Tameka was a working mom, who recently had received her income tax return. She had hoped to buy a car in a nearby community, so she withdrew all of her cash from the credit union and had an acquaintance pick her up from her home. She was never seen... Missing and Forgotten
June 2, 2011 - Siriyakorn “Bung” Siriboon (13) disappeared from Boronia, Victoria (Australia). Bung was last seen leaving her home to walk to school. Bung was born in Thailand, and police believe that her family there or someone else in the country can provide clues to her disappearance. Two years after she vanished, a man claimed he... Where is Siriyakorn?
April 2, 2016 – Sidney Taylor (35) and Krislyn Gibson (35) disappeared from Austin, Texas (US). Sidney and Krislyn had taken a road trip from Houston to Austin to attend a concert. The night before the show, the couple met up with one of Sidney’s friend and went to a night club. They were last seen in the early hours of the morning. Sidney’s car was later found abandoned in Houston… What happened to Sidney and Krislyn?
July 22, 2016 - Eric Pracht (25) disappeared from Lakewood, Colorado (US). Eric was a paramedic, who was planning to wed his fiancé. On the day he vanished, Eric was hosting a party at his home and got into some altercation with a guest. Eric decided to cool down by leaving his condo and taking a walk alone and barefoot at midnight. He was never... What happened to Eric?
UNRESOLVED (& UNUSUAL) DEATHS
June 25, 1968 - Robinson Family Murders (Good Hart murders) - This was the mass murder of a family who was shot and killed in their vacation cottage in Good Hart, Michigan (US). The home belonged to a prominent magazine publisher in Detroit, Richard and Shirley Robinson and their four children. In July of that year, a caretaker for the neighborhood had been alerted to an odor coming from that area. The neighbors had been told that the Robinsons would be out of town, so no one seemed alarmed and assumed the smell was a dead animal. However, inside the home, the caretaker found the decomposing bodies of the entire family. With the exception of their youngest daughter (7 years old) who had been beaten with a hammer alone, everyone else was bludgeoned and shot. The investigation into the deaths found that Richard's business was in trouble. An employee had been embezzling... What happened to the Robinson family?
June 25, 1974 - Maria-Luise Artmeier (25) died after she lost control of her car and struck another vehicle in Munich, Bavaria (Germany). However, Maria was not killed due to the impact of the crash. Instead, the medical team found that she had been viciously stabbed shortly before the accident and had suffered a mortal wound to her heart. Police never found the murder weapon, and there were very few clues left at the scene. Maria had spent the evening at a restaurant with friends and was most likely ambushed as she entered her car alone. Who could have done this to Maria?
February 26, 1977 - Barbara Jean Maclean (16?) was found dead in Calgary, Alberta (Canada). Barbara had recently moved to Calgary and was living with her boyfriend. The night before her body was found, Barbara had gone to a bar with friends, family and her boyfriend (who was intoxicated). Barbara had been arguing with her boyfriend that night, and he ended up leaving her stranded in the parking lot. Barbara was under the influence, so she decided to hitchhike from the outside of the bar to an after party, where she... Why does Canada have fewer missing/unsolved murder cases? Do you think 70s culture contributed to more deaths?
January 14, 1983 - Terri McClure (62) disappeared from Lake Tahoe, Nevada (US). Terri lived in Reno but had traveled to Lake Tahoe for her son Tim's wedding. Terri attended the wedding and reception but planned to return home that evening after the festivities. Tim told authorities that he walked his mother to her car before she left, and he never saw her again. After watching his mother depart, he claimed he went to a casino and gambled alone for two hours and then spent the rest of his night with his new bride partying until the early hours of the morning. Police were unable to confirm his alibi, and Tim made some strange statements... Trail Went Cold
THE UNIDENTIFIED
October 18, 1984 - Hot Spring John Doe was a male hitchhiker on his way to California, who was picked up in Louisville, Kentucky (US). The driver of the car remembers that the hitchhiker said he was from New Haven, Connecticut. After the two had stopped to get something to eat, the hitchhiker took over driving the car and then... Who is Hot Spring John Doe?
May 25, 2003 – Mammoth Lakes Jane Doe – A hiker’s dog found the remains of a petite, Asian, woman (30-40 years old), who had likely been killed around August 2002 in Mammoth Lakes, California (US). Police brought in a physical anthropologist to help them identify the woman, and he believed that this woman had been stabbed to death… Who is this Jane Doe and what happened to her?
HISTORICAL MYSTERIES
Vilvos posted some musical mysteries like none other I've seen in this sub. Frankly, I was unaware of one band but found myself fascinated nonetheless. When will Jimmy Hendrix acoustic album be released in its entirety? Ever heard of the Peanut Duck? What is Charles Manson's connection to The Beach Boys? Musical Mystery Tour
June 10, 1876 - James Moon (36) was believed to have committed suicide in a hotel room in Lafayette, Indiana (US). James had meticulously planned his death, and created a guillotine inside the hotel to serve this purpose... Why did James go through these efforts?
November 12, 1966 - The Mothman - Outside of Clendenin, West Virginia (US), a group of men preparing a burial saw a moth-like-creature emerge from the trees. It was manlike in structure and different from anything else they'd ever seen. Later more sightings were reported, and most of these seemed to be near the old West Virginia Ordnance Works. The WVOW is a well known, but abandoned munitions factory from WW II. It's in a highly polluted area, referred to as an 'environmental disaster.' One couple who saw the creature described it as... What is this creature?
January 7, 1970 - Aarno Heinonen and Esko Viljo were taking a break from cross country skiing when they saw something in the sky in Imjärvi, Heinola (Finland). It appeared to be an "elongated, fire colored object...with a 'flame' coming from behind." Within a few moments, they then saw a flying saucer and heard the sounds of buzzing. A strange man soon appeared... Do UFOs exist?
January 28, 1991 - Outside of Las Vegas, Nevada (US), a 23-year-old man was found walking alone in the Mojave Desert. He appeared lost, overdressed for the climate, and severely dehydrated. When he was taken to the hospital, he could not provide the staff with any information on his identity. The hospital would later name him "Tyler, " after he was diagnosed with psychogenic amnesia. After undergoing hypnosis, Tyler begin to remember more information about his past... Who is Tyler? Was this all a hoax?
THE ACCUSED
May 1918 - The Axeman - A mysterious monster emerged in New Orleans, Louisana (US) one who wielded an ax and killed at his discretion. He snuck into his victim's home, then gruesomely butchered a grocer and his wife but left without taking any valuables. Police had no suspects but found that these cases were noticeably similar to other crimes against Italian grocers, who had been attacked years earlier by a man with an ax. As the details leaked out to the public, grocers around the city reported their close encounter with this axeman. The city waited in fear until another family was attacked and killed. Then a local newspaper editor received an anonymous letter from the killer saying he would attack again but would spare the lives of those where a jazz band played... What happened to the New Orleans Axeman?
1982-1984 - The Brabant Killers (Nijvel Gang) are a group in Belgium, who committed violent attacks which resulted in 28 people's deaths and another 40 being injured. The notorious gang was known for their excessive use of violence (like killing innocent bystanders and children) and indifference to law enforcement. Their motive for their crimes is still unknown, some believe they were psychopaths, and others think they may have been politically motivated. The statute of limitations on the...Who were The Brabant Killers and why did they commit these crimes?
June 16, 1991 - Father's Day Bank Massacre - On a Sunday morning (which happened to be Father's day) in Denver, Colorado (US), a man showed up outside the building of the United Bank Tower claiming to be the vice president of the bank. When security went down to investigate, the would-be robber showed a handgun to the unarmed guard and forced his way into the bank. He then shot and killed four employees and made off with... Who was behind this massacre?
February 7, 2008 - Greg Rouzers (41) was accused and convicted of the attempted murder of Randolph "Randy" Walters. Greg held some grudge against Randy and his girlfriend Marian Wertz because Marian had once been engaged to Greg's brother (the brother tried to commit suicide at some point during that relationship). While in prison for the attempted killing of Randy, Greg failed twice at trying to hire a hitman to kill Randy. Greg's girlfriend and father were accused of assisting him in those plots. Greg's father was the former neighbor of Revell Jeeter. Greg has told police that he has information on Revell's disappearance Is Greg responsible for Revell's disappearance?
MYSTERY SERIES
1979 - 1986 The East Area Rapist (Original Night Stalker) – “an unidentified serial killer and rapist who committed 50 rapes in Northern California and murdered twelve people in Southern California” (Wikipedia). He is believed to have started his crime spree as the Visalia Ransacker. Some of the actions of the rapist are puzzling. His.. The East Area Rapist, Part 4
August 8, 2010 - Ben McDaniel (30) disappeared from Ponce de Leon, Florida (US). Ben was a gifted man with an unflinching sense of adventure. He had recently experienced some setbacks, and with the blessing of his family decided to take a sabbatical in Florida. While he was in Florida, Ben pursued his scuba diving passion and made use of the geographical landforms to explore underground caves in his area. Although these dives were considered dangerous, Ben remain undeterred. Ben McDaniel, the diver who vanished from 58ft below the surface of an Underwater Cave. Part 2.5
ASK THE SLEUTHS
Question on the intro sequence of Unsolved Mysteries Discuss
Thoughts about Backmasking? (Playing song backward, where it has a satanic message) Discuss
Looking for French mysteries/disappearances Discuss
What cases are you constantly checking on? Discuss
What mystery is the best case or has the best evidence for the supernatural/extraterrestrial? Discuss
What are some good unresolved WWII Nazi mysteries? Discuss
What subjects would you personally like to see more posts about on this sub? Discuss
Can anyone help me with a mystery from Calgary, Alberta (Canada)? Discuss
Anyone watch 48 Hours tonight? All about Michelle McNamara and EAONS. Discuss
Help remembering a case: Early 20s, possibly blonde hair, disappeared after a night out, may have been at university, specifically wearing black shorts (denim or yoga) Discuss
Argh, matey! Avast ye, do any o' ye landlubbers be knowin' o' any legends or stories about hidden booty? (I couldn't help but read this question in a pirate voice, "Do you know any legends or stories of hidden treasure?")Discuss
What is your relationship with your mysteries? Discuss
What's a mystery that has left you completely perplexed because of its weird circumstances? Discuss
Are there any real-life cases about [law enforcement] officers who are actually informants for FBI, CIA or even organized crimes? Discuss
Need help finding similar cases - Murder of Skylar Neese Discuss
Jane Doe drawn with her hand covering her face Discuss
Mysteries where multiple people disappeared? Discuss
What case has 'shattered' your mind because of its grotesque circumstances? Discuss
What are some good solved mysteries? The more puzzling the original mystery the better. Discuss
10th Anniversary of Madeleine McCann disappearance Discuss
What are the chances dollars spent abroad coming back to the USA? What if D.B.Cooper spent it in Mexico? Discuss
Missing Persons Cases Where You Think They're Still Alive? Discuss
How many 'mysterious' missing person cases can be explained by people getting lost in the wilderness and dying as opposed to foul play? Discuss
Lesser known cases of long-term captivity? Discuss
Help remembering a case! (request) - 20-30 something, young woman, had multiple siblings, helped kill father because her mother was cheating, eventually wanted to confess but then disappeared Discuss
Have you ever personally contributed to the solving of an open, unresolved case? Have you ever actively contributed to a case that remains unsolved? Discuss
Mystery Involving 20th Century Military Man - May have served in WWI or II, naval soldier or sailor. ID card issued in Britain, but he was American. The letter "C" was "figured prominently in his name." May be related to Tamam Shud case. Discuss
Which do you think is the best US state for skiing out of these four? Personally, I'd rank them like this; Colorado Accessibility = 3rd Ski Quality = 2nd Towns = 1st Restaurants = 1st Quantity = 1st Overall = 1st A little bias for my home state, but CO does offer a huge quantity of ski resorts across the state. Telluride, Aspen, Vail, Breckenridge, Keystone, Steamboat Springs, you name it. I'd say the skiing itself is a tossup against UT, but the whole package and options list is definitely number 1. The best ski resort restaurants are located in CO, (my favorite being Ticiono in Beaver Creek). The towns also are great to explore, and have a nice Alpine feel to them, and are really clean, too. Yes, CO resorts are often crowded, but think about it. Even after UT hosted the damn Olympics, CO is still the ski capital of the United States. Most folks in the east coast still think of CO before UT or even sometimes VT when they think of skiing. No other state offers a huge mix of quantity and quality of its resorts as CO, which is why people still come to the state year after year to ski despite the crowds, which is why it is Number 1. Also, many of these resorts contain their own airport, so you don't have to fly into DEN (just make sure to watch the weather so they don't close though). Utah Accessibility = 1st Ski Quality = 1st Towns = 2nd Restaurants = 3rd Quantity = 3rd Overall = 2nd When it comes to accessibility and convenience, UT wins hands down. The resorts, unlike the ones in CO, do not have their own airport, but they don't need it, they are all an easy drive from SLC, a bigger airport that has much fewer closures and delays than not only CO resort airports such as ASE and EGE, but even DEN. The skiing itself is as good, if not, better than CO, especially in Alta or Snowbird. Also, the snow is also really dry, and the state does claim itself as having the Greatest Snow on Earth. The reason UT is lower than CO is because it heavily lacks in quantity compared to CO, pretty much all the ski resorts in UT are situated east of SLC, and not spread out across the state. Also, although Park City and Alta are nice towns, they're not as nice as the ski towns in CO, and the restaurants there can't hold a candle to the ones in CO. Many go to SLC for the nightlife, but I want an Alpine, not a Metropolitan, experience when going skiing. Still, UT is the second best state for skiing in the US, and definitely one I would highly recommend. California Accessibility = 2nd Ski Quality = 3rd Towns = 3rd Restaurants = 2nd Quantity = 2nd Overall = 3rd CA comes second in quantity behind CO. Most of CA's resorts lie in the Sierra Nevadas, usually around Lake Tahoe, with the exception of resorts such as Kirkwood or Mammoth. They also do get a lot of great snow, and are pretty big in acreage. South Lake Tahoe also has its own airport, and the northern ski resorts such as Sugar Bowl and Boreal are a close drive from RNO (Reno, NV). If you want a gambling nightlife after skiing, Reno would be the ideal choice. CA is a great skiing place, but it does lack quantity compared to CO, and quality compared to both CO and UT. The ski towns are much smaller, with the exception of South Lake Tahoe, and the snow definitely lacks in comparison to CO and UT. As for the restaurants there, there is better quantity and quality than UT, but not as good as CO. Still, CA is still highly recommended, and is the third best state for skiing. Vermont Accessibility = 4th Ski Quality = 4th Towns = 4th Restaurants = 4th Quantity = 4th Overall = 4th Okay, when it comes to North American skiing east of the Rockies, VT wins hands down. The top 7-10 best resorts in the US east of CO are all located in VT, and more people live in the east coast than the west coast, which is why VT is so highly often brought into the discussion. However, although VT skiing is very good and definitely the best east of the Rockies, it's a huge gap. The snow conditions are much worse than the ones in the Rockies or Sierra Nevadas, and the towns have much less to offer, I definitely don't think VT compares to CO, UT, or CA when it comes to skiing. Sorry to say it. But hey, as I said before, if you want to ski in the east, VT should definitely be your choice. So what is your vote?
[Very long, but I know you have nothing better to do] [EDIT: Tried to fix formatting. And for those who live in terrible places - take a joke!] When NBA players reach the rare points of their careers when they actually have the unfettered discretion to choose where they want to live and play basketball, they choose different places for different reasons. Where would he have the best opportunity to contend for a championship? Who can pay him the most money? Where can he be the number one option and play the way he wants to play? Who has the best coach and front office? Which city has the best weather? Which city has the best clubs? The best strip clubs? Proximity to models? Proximity to Kardashians? Where did he grow up? Recently, every slight compliment that Kevin Durant bestows on a team or a town leads to wild speculation of where he will play next season. As the biggest free agent since Lebron took his talents to South Beach in 2010 and since he took his somewhat fading talents back to Lake Erie in 2014, there is good reason to speculate about KD’s future. In all likelihood, his carefully crafted decision will lead to five years of playing for the Larry O’Brien trophy no matter which jersey he dons. The complexities of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the increasing intelligence of most front offices in the league (sorry Sacramento), and the ability to be marketable from anywhere in a globalized economy have changed the way that players make decisions. It is no longer about forcing yourself to the biggest market, which historically, have been the places where a player was most likely to win. A monstrous television deal that will only increase in the next couple of years has leveled the playing field. As has a CBA where a team actually has to plan and make smart decisions to manage their salary cap situation. But let’s pretend that it’s just about the city and the history of the franchise (but not the active basketball operations, coach and players. So – for example – we can say Michael Jordan played there! But, we cannot factor in Fred Hoiberg, the general current management of the team or the fact that you can play with Jimmy Butler). All else being equal – which NBA locations/teams are the most attractive to NBA players? Remember, we are looking at this from the perspective of young millionaires. BIG CITY, BRIGHT LIGHTS:
Los Angeles Lakers
It used to be like the rap wars of the mid-1990s. East Coast or West Coast? Biggie or Pac? New York or L.A.? Los Angeles had Hollywood opportunities (What if I told you that you get play a 7 foot genie, star alongside Francis Capra and Da Brat and be directed by the genius behind The Cutting Edge and three episodes of Miami Vice?) Jack Nicholson watching courtside, young actresses (and aspiring ones) flooding the Forum Club and then Hyde at the Staples Center. You could have a mansion in Beverly Hills or on the Strand in Manhattan Beach. A player could enjoy the finest well-done steaks at Mastro’s. Or you could live in a Park Avenue penthouse. Give high-fives to Jay-Z. Get your boy a guest spot on Law & Order SVU. 4:00 a.m. nights with models in Tribeca and SOHO. And most importantly, being in the center of the media universe could make you as marketable as…Patrick Ewing? But times have changed. In the age of Twitter and Vine, League Pass, and nationally televised games, no matter where you are, players don’t needNew York. They don’t need L.A. But they still want L.A. The perfect weather and the pull of Hollywood, which remains the epicenter of the entertainment industry. A place where you can blend in and be afforded a little more privacy because residents are more excited by encounters with Jax fromVanderpump Rules. Los Angeles remains the place where you can play for one of the two most storied teams in the league, while being able to roll along Pacific Coast Highway in a convertible maroon Bentley on a 78 degree January afternoon. It is the Lakers history that puts L.A. at the top. Veterans grew up watching the late Magic years. Younger players grew up watching the Kobe-Shaq dynasty or the Kobe-Pau years. The games under the Showtime lighting, framed yellow jerseys and 16 championship banners just feel different. It is one thing to be an NBA player. It is a whole other to be a Laker.
Miami Heat
It’s pretty much Los Angeles, but with the occasional hurricane, worse humidity, and Cuban telenovelas instead of big-budget motion pictures. Miami still has the beach and the clear and beautiful warm waters of South Florida. NBA players love neon lights and other bright shit, making South Beach a favorite. There are the palm trees and the waterfront mansions. A player can still date models. Prime 112 has tempura lobster (A Jalen Rose favorite). Alonzo Mourning and the late 1990s teams brought legitimacy to a new organization. Dwyane Wade and Pat Riley turned them into a premiere franchise and Lebron and the big-three era catapulted the Heat to arguably becoming the most marquee NBA franchise, other than the Lakers and Spurs, in the post-Jordan era. Also, in case you forgot every Cribs episode, never underestimate an NBA player’s adoration for Scarface. BIG CITY, NOT AS BRIGHT LIGHTS:
Los Angeles Clippers
Basically the Lakers, but with selfies hanging inside Staples instead of championship banners and nostalgia for Eric Piatkowski instead of Magic Johnson. The trash organization gained legitimacy when the NBA evicted their slumlord owner and brought in a tech billionaire whose products are not used by a single person in Los Angeles, most of whom are working on Broad City spec scripts at their local coffee shop. The marketability factor is still present with opportunities for players to be the king of insurance or mid-tier Korean family sedans. It’s still Los Angeles and a player can always go out on Sunset and pretend he is on the Lakers.
New York Knicks
We pretend the Knicks are the unheralded kings of free agency. That everyone dreams of playing at the Garden and living in New York. But unless you grew up in the five boroughs - no one liked Ewing, Starks, Oak and Anthony Mason (RIP). Most NBA players would not know if Bernard King played on the Knicks between 1983-1987 or 1963-1967. The oldest active player in the NBA (the professor, Andre Miller) was born approximately three years AFTER the Knicks last won an NBA championship. Sorry, the Knicks aren’t a premiere NBA organization. And this is without even mentioning James Dolan. And - contrary to popular opinion - New York City is not the premiere place to live if you are an NBA superstar. A player would rather live in a sprawling 8,000 square foot mansion with a regulation sized basketball court, shark tank, nine-hole golf course, and a Ritz Carlton quality pool than pay $10 million for a 2,000 square foot apartment or brownstone. Your average NBA player would rather eat at The Cheesecake Factory than the awesome hole-in-the-wall Pho spot or David Chang’s latest Michelin rated restaurant. NBA players aren’t known to spend Saturday afternoons strolling the Museum of Modern Art or checking out trendy and provocative performance art projects in Bushwick warehouses. It isn’t 1981, so nearly every NBA city has some semblance of nightlife where a player can enjoy a bottle of Dom P, VIP area, and have a flock of jersey-chasers clamoring for attention. NBA players don’t fuck with the Subway. New York is really cold during approximately 80% of the NBA regular season. But even though I spent approximately 300 words shitting on New York, it’s still New York. Just ask JR Smith. [NOTE – THIS ABOVE PARAGRAPH DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU IF YOU ARE MARRIED TO LA LA].
Brooklyn Nets
The team’s history is buried in a swamp in New Jersey. The legacy of the team since it has moved to Brooklyn centers around former stars who were collective decades removed from their primes. NBA players are not Lena Dunham. It’s still New York, but not quite. Basically the New York Clippers. Having a Russian Oligarch multi-billionaire for an owner is pretty cool. NOT L.A. OR MIAMI, BUT THE WEATHER IS NICE
Houston Rockets
It’s hot. There is good food and lots of chain restaurants. Huge houses for cheap and no state taxes. Paul Wall, Mike Jones (who?) and Chamillionaire were at the height of their popularity when most of these guys were in junior high and high school. Hakeem might help you with your footwork. Allegedly, great strip clubs.
Dallas Mavericks
It’s hot. There are quality steakhouses and lots of chain restaurants. Huge houses for cheap and no state taxes. Unfortunately, no strong rap history. No one to help you with your footwork, but Cuban provides the best perks (remember when he put a Playstation 2 in every player’s locker back in 2002?) A lot of players are Dallas Cowboys fans because they are front-running assholes who grew up with the Irvin, Emmett and Aikman teams. Allegedly, great strip clubs. And if Chandler Parsons chose to play there you know it is a good time.
Phoenix Suns
It’s really hot. There are lots of chain restaurants. Huge houses for cheap, but there are state taxes. Unfortunately, no strong rap history. NBA players treat Phoenix as if it is a distant suburb of Los Angeles. Few models, but plenty of surgically enhanced cleavage and Arizona State Coeds. More NBA players than you think golf. Pool parties where players can wear socks, rubber Nike sandals, and two pairs of oversized basketball shorts. The Steve Nash teams revolutionized basketball and rescued the NBA from the 84-79 point games era. Barkley took them to the Finals against Jordan and maybe a player can get invited to his poker game (hope he makes a max-level salary!)
Orlando Magic
Players have been known to live on lakes and jet-ski to each other’s houses to play Madden, which sounds like exactly the kind of life I would have liked to have led when I was 17. The weather is really nice and it’s almost tropical. It’s basically Miami, but rednecks instead of Latin people and New York retirees, lakes instead of the ocean, and strip malls and Disney World instead of any semblance of nightlife. Those D12 teams were underrated (beat Lebron in his prime), but no one has ever said “Dwight Howard did it, so you know it is a good idea.” Some goodwill remains from the Penny-Shaq era. Everyone forgets that T-Mac and Grant Hill played here. THE CITIES THAT SHOULD BE HIGHER
Atlanta Hawks
It is a mystery why Atlanta is not a more popular NBA city. You would think Atlanta would be at the center of the Venn diagram of where rappers and NBA players want to live. But apparently, NBA players don’t care too much about fraternizing with 2 Chainz, Outkast, Ludacris, Jermaine Dupri, Gucci Mane, Lil Jon, and Young Jeezy. It isn’t San Diego, but the weather is nice. The food is good. You can buy a Southern estate for about the price of a condo in Inglewood. You might be able to get a cameo on The Real Housewives of Atlanta. Freaknik is in Atlanta, even though its heyday has long since passed. It’s at the top of the list of where traveling NBA players play like shit. Atlanta has arguably the best clubs of NBA cities that are not Los Angeles, New York, or Miami. Of course, I have to bring up The Gold Club, where you can feel free to hang around a little bit and talk to them, then leave. It’s one of the two major African-American metropoles in the country. Highlights of the Hawks history are basically limited to the 2015 team getting swept in the conference finals, that time Joe Johnson hit a three, and Dominique Wilkins almost (he should have) beating MJ in the 1988 dunk contest. Maybe that’s why guys don’t want to play here.
Washington Wizards
Affectionately nicknamed Chocolate City. But basketball has really never mattered in DC outside of Georgetown hoops. THEY ARE REALLY GOOD AT BASKETBALL, BUT THAT’S ABOUT IT:
San Antonio Spurs
What would San Antonio be without the Spurs? The answer is El Paso. No one wants to live in El Paso. This is a good reminder that this list does not consider the strength of the present-day organization, but it does factor in the history of the organization. Therefore, the Spurs get a bump for having five titles, four of which no one cares much about. There’s a better chance of Fox News covering a Bernie Sanders rally than Hardwood Classics ever airing a game from the New Jersey Nets and San Antonio Spurs 2003 Finals. San Antonio is, in essence, Dallas or Houston, but they tend to fare worse in the most obese cities rankings, more residents speak Spanish, and the chain restaurants are next to a dirty river. I am not sure any NBA players remember the Alamo. REMEMBER THAT WE ARE NOT FACTORING IN STEPH CURRY:
Golden State Warriors
Two years ago you would probably agree with this placement. Now you probably think I am insane, stupid or both. But in my completely arbitrary and not very well contemplated rules for this exercise, you don’t get to factor in playing with Steph and company, but you do get to factor in the insane current popularity of the franchise, which has been propelled by Steph and company. So – ummm – make sense? Until this ongoing Warriors run, Golden State was akin to Milwaukee west. The years of Run TMC were all too brief and the most prominent superstar (before Steph) claimed by this franchise shot free throws underhand and is widely regarded as the most despised Top-50 player and champion in league history. And as much as tech-bros are popularizing Northern California, NBA players aren’t exactly swayed by the most European of NBA cities. Other than Boris Diaw and Tony Parker, not many NBA guys would enjoy a nice red at a sidewalk café on a foggy San Francisco afternoon and coordinate team day-trips to Napa. BIG CITIES, SHIT IT’S COLD:
Chicago Bulls
The greatest of all-time wore number 23. No NBA team’s identity is as much ingrained in the image of a single player. The Lakers are the Lakers even without one of Kareem, West, Wilt, Magic, Shaq, or Kobe. The Celtics are the Celtics even without one of Bill Russell, Bird, KG, or Pierce. The Bulls are the Timberwolves without Jordan. MJ has rewritten the history of the franchise so extensively that people forget that they were one of the league’s most dogshit franchises when they drafted Jordan out of North Carolina. To play in Chicago is to follow in Jordan’s footsteps, but unfortunately, the shadow he casts is so large that players are hesitant to fill those Air Jordan’s. Lebron – allegedly – scoffed when Chicago’s pitch to him in 2010 was exactly that. The Bulls sent him a pair of Jordans with an accompanying message: “Do you dare to fill these shoes?” We know how he answered. “Fuck no!” And that seems to be the attitude that modern superstars hold. Why would I go to a team where – no matter what I do and how many championships I win – I’ll never be Michael? Chicago is the pride of the prairie. It’s the grandest American city outside of L.A. or NYC. But it is also the windy city and the most frigid big city in the country, where gusts off of Lake Michigan will literally pain your bones. Unless you are an opera connoisseur, it doesn’t hold much appeal over many of the NBA’s mid-sized cities. There’s a reason in Kanye West’s Good Life, he raps: “The good life, it feel like Atlanta, it feel like L.A., it feel like Miami. It feel like N.Y., summertime Chi, ahhh, now throw your hands up in the sky.” Summertime Chi. As in – great place to play for the Cubs! But stay the fuck away during the NBA season.
Boston Celtics
How can the team with the most championships in NBA history be as low as 15? Why are the Celtics ranked below the Bulls when they have 11 more titles? Because even though Boston has the richest basketball history in the NBA, it also has - well - Boston history. Just ask Bill Russell about that. Even if Boston is a more friendly city to African-Americans in 2016 than the city was in 1966, it still has never been a free agent destination. The recent Big 3 era was orchestrated via trades rather than free agency, even if KG ultimately agreed to join Pierce and Jesus Shuttlesworth to win his first and only ring. But he was apprehensive, even calling Bill Russell to seek advice. Boston is a tremendous place to live, to go to college or graduate school, to be Irish, and the optimal place to be if you’re a fan of the Dropkick Murphy’s, where bagpipe-punk ballads are bar staples on far more than just St. Patrick’s Day. Memories of the Garden and Bird and the other several hall-of-famers certainly serves as a strong recruiting factor. But when New England poet Robert Frost poses the question about two roads diverged in a yellow wood, the NBA millionaire is not going to choose either road that leads to the frigid Boston winters, no matter how pretty the foliage when the season begins.
Toronto Raptors
It is Canada. Which is not the United States. Which means it is a pain in the ass to deal with currency conversion. And you have to file taxes (which are higher in Canada) in two separate countries. Toronto is possibly the most metropolitan and lively large North American city outside of New York. Because I have not been to Toronto as an adult, I Googled the best clubs in the city to get a feel for how well those Canada nights complement the life of an NBA star. Number one as of July 2015 was Uniun, which sounds like a failing Vegas club at New York, New York, which not so successfully attempts to emulate some chic Manhattan spot. Here is the description: “Owned by the Ariana Grande of the Toronto club scene, Charles Khabouth…” So yeah, apparently a Lebanese Canadian club owner and hotelier in his fifties is the Ariana Grande of the Toronto club scene. Makes sense. Some other Union gems: BEERS ON TAP: None, but bottles of Heineken, Coors, Corona, and Molson Canadian. BAR SNACKS: None as of yet. WHO GOES THERE: Dressed-up fans of electronic music, beautiful people in their 20s and 30s. That place sounds TERRIBLE. I bet Jonas Valanciunas has a standing table reservation. In Toronto, English is still the primary language. While perhaps too similar to the Bratislava clubs in Eurotrip, there are numerous nightlife options. There is an abundance of diversity. Most importantly for NBA players, there is a Benihana! But it is cold. Really cold. Like colder than Boston, Chicago or New York cold. And if you’re learning anything from this list, it’s that NBA players do not like being in the cold. Which is a primary reason that the Western Conference has been dominant for two decades. Even if NBA players have a debaucherous time on the road when traveling up to The North - it’s hard to shake the perceptions that are formed in childhood. And nearly every NBA player grew up thinking of Canada, even places like Toronto, as an uninhabited frozen wasteland with the occasional igloo and Eskimo. Three years ago Toronto would be ten spots lower on this list, but it’s helpful to have your ambassador and biggest celebrity fan be the most popular rapper on the planet. Drake might be worth more to this franchise than Lebron is worth to Cleveland. MEMPHIS:
Memphis Grizzlies
It’s a smaller town than the warmer cities listed above and the weather is less desirable. It’s one of the top cities for BBQ in the country, and perhaps, the best of any NBA city. Beale Street is apparently fun. It is more of a blue-collar city than NBA players typically prefer, but at least it is not in the Rust Belt. It is rated higher than similarly sized and geographically located cities Charlotte and New Orleans because the grit & grind era gave Memphis a distinct basketball identity that resonates with fans. The three most exhilarating things currently in the NBA are Russell Westbrook attacking the rim at full speed, Steph Curry pulling up from 40 and the Memphis PA system bumping Whoop That Trick during a crucial fourth quarter playoffs timeout. If only NBA players were bigger fans of Elvis. THE GREAT OUTDOORS:
Portland Trailblazers
The last remaining frontier of professional basketball in the Great American Northwest. Portland, as a city, has undergone a surge of popularity among America’s twenty-somethings, inspiring such articles as the Washington Post’s Why quirky Portland is winning the battle for young college grads. Oregon has lakes, streams, rivers, trees and picturesque mountains. It also has one of America’s most infamous foodie scenes and thousands of clones of young Bill Walton, albeit the political and socially-conscious new anti-yuppies of Portland lack The Big Redhead’s size and athletic ability. But riding a fixie bike does keep those quads strong. While natural scenic beauty and hiking have not historically been strong sellers to NBA free agents, Portland - or at least nearby Beaverton - does have one thing that turns the heads of young athletes…The Swoosh. The Blazers also boast an NBA title, one of the better logo/color scheme combinations in professional sports, a devoted cult-like local following, and hall-of-famers across multiple generations. If only it did not rain so fucking much.
Denver Nuggets
I’d personally rather live in Denver than any NBA city outside of Los Angeles, but I reckon I enjoy snowboarding, the mountains and IPAs more than your average professional basketball player. My team-building strategy for the Nuggets would be to target all Euro stars and convince them that living in the mile high city is like residing in an eighties ski movie, which it probably is for Gallinari. Vail and Aspen are surely suitable stand-ins for the Swiss Alps. I would also try to work on getting Kendrick Lamar a residency at Red Rocks. Unfortunately, among the most forgotten teams and players from the eighties were the really fun Fat Lever and Alex English led scoring machines. Fresh in the minds of most players is Melo’s slow and painful mid-season exit and there’s no other recent period in Nuggets history which serves as a draw for free agents. But once the NBA gets out of the weed regulation business and ceases testing for non-performance enhancing drugs and non-narcotics, you can go ahead and bump the Nugs up a spot or ten. THE PROCESS:
Philadelphia 76ers
The city of brotherly love is the fifth largest United States city. But just because it is big doesn’t mean that there is anything notable about the town. No one talks about the restaurants or the bars or the museums or anything that has really happened since the 18th century. There is the liberty bell, so that’s cool? Most people only know about Philadelphia because of Ben Franklin book reports in fourth grade. Alllen Iverson was just interviewed by Complex Magazine and said his favorite thing to do in Philly was go to TGI Fridays. But people remember Dr. J and Moses Malone. And more recently, Allen Iverson had his best years in Philly and brought them to the Finals and I am not going to underestimate AI’s impact, as he is up there with Jordan as one of the most iconic and culturally transformative players to ever pick up an orange ball. Too bad Sam Hinkie has worked his hardest to demolish a once proud franchise’s reputation. At least Philadelphia is not Milwaukee or Detroit. NICE CLIMATE, TOO REGIONAL:
New Orleans Pelicans
I don’t have a lot of history to go on here, since The Big Easy has been a permanent NBA town for about a decade. It seems like a pleasant enough place to live. It is inexpensive. The cuisine is excellent. You can hear the best Jazz of your life on an unassuming street corner. You can legally walk down the street with a drink in your hand. You can legally gamble. No one seems to mind if you urinate outside a bar in the French Quarter at five in the morning. There are Southern mansions and a quieter life available in the burbs. Cash Money records reps the 504, but unfortunately, I’m not sure Lil Wayne carries the same weight in 2016 as he did when he ruled the aughts. There’s an NCIS here now. The weather is mostly mild during the NBA season, but the worst natural disaster in United States history likely still looms large in player’s minds. Even if it is home to Mardi Gras and is essentially the Vegas of the American South, it’s still a very small town and that historically has not played well with NBA dudes. I just have the feeling it’s more likely for a player’s bachelor party than it is as a permanent residence. But New Orleans’ place on this list should be revisited in five or so years.
Charlotte Hornets
Everyone in Charlotte is a bank teller, financial analyst at a large commercial bank, works for the Federal Reserve or worships at the altar of Dale Earnhardt. I am surprised that the professional sports teams in the state don’t have a permanent 3 patched onto the breast of the team jerseys. Charlotte is where SEC and ACC grads end up if they didn’t get jobs in Atlanta. Other than middle-management at a regional office and NASCAR, when I think of Charlotte, one other thing comes to mind - college hoops. Jordan, Worthy, Stackhouse, Vince, Sheed and Dean Smith. Tar Heels versus Blue Devils. Pro basketball has already died once in Charlotte, but was singlehandedly resurrected by the greatest basketball player of all-time who just so happened to be from the state. If MJ was raised in Detroit, L.A. or Chicago, the Charlotte Hornets would be the Seattle Sonics 2.0 or the Kansas City Jayhawks. But every male between 30 and 35 years old, no matter where they grew up in the U.S., had a teal Hornets Starter Jacket. If the Hornets want to increase their free agency rankings, they need to go back to their early-to-mid 90s LJ and Zo throwback attire. They also need to make Grandmama the permanent mascot. And at least for the next five to seven years - the front office can lure free agents with 50 yard line seats to see Cam Newton. FACTORY TOWNS AND KIND OF A CALIFORNIA TOWN:
Detroit Pistons
The epicenter of the desolate remains of once proud American manufacturing. If you sign with the Pistons, they may be able to hook you up with a good deal on a Ford Explorer. Living options are between a dilapidated warehouse in downtown Detroit or a 10,000 square foot mansion in a Pleasantville-esque suburb, which are similar to the Northside burbs of Chicago, but if Chicago itself no longer existed and it was even colder. But the Pistons do well with adopting the persona of Detroit toughness. From the Bad Boys to the Billups-Rip-Tayshaun-Sheed-Ben Wallace squad. So a player can feel good about being perceived as a badass, but will soon learn why everyone respects his toughness and resilience, he has to live in Detroit.
Sacramento Kings
It sounds appealing to work and live in the capital of California, until you realize that the capital of California is Sacramento. The current Kings arena – Sleep Train (formerly Arco) – is located in a cow pasture. The best thing about Sacramento is the approximate 100 mile distance to Lake Tahoe and 90 mile distance to San Francisco. When your best selling point is being located not that far away from better places, it does not speak all that highly about your city. Sacramento…at least we’re not Barstow. The Maloof bros sold, so there is no longer access to free Vegas depravity. The Webber-Bibby-Peja-Vlade years were fun, but the franchise has since slowly slid into complete chaos and incompetence. They should just ditch the new digs and move to Orange County (which would immediately be a top three free agent destination), where players can live in Newport and Laguna Beach and not have to wait until retirement to hit on cougars at Javier’s.
Indiana Pacers
Reggie Miller scoring eight points in nine seconds and miming the choking sign to Spike Lee single-handedly keeps the Pacers out of the bottom of the barrel. Aside from Hoosiers, Bobby Knight, Peyton Manning before the neck, Andrew Luck, Parks and Recreation, the beginning of The Jackson 5 and the non-NASCAR kind of racing, I don’t know much about Indiana. I know Notre Dame is in South Bend, but the Irish pretty much exist independently of the State. Apparently you can fish there, which Roy Hibbert and Paul George taught us that a friendly team fishing expedition can heal deep wounds. So…here we are. Indiana!
Cleveland Cavaliers
I’ll start with the obvious – if I was factoring in playing with Lebron, the Cavs would be near the top of these rankings. Although, Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving might argue differently. Before Lebron Round One, the most iconic Cavs moment was Jordan nailing the double-pump, buzzer beating jumper in the 1989 playoffs and sending Craig Ehlo crying to his knees. During the early Lebron years, the Cavs are most remembered for wilting twice in the playoffs and being subsequently deserted by The King for the number two squad on this list. Cleveland rests on the shores of water so disgusting and polluted, that Lake Erie has caught on fire MULTIPLE times, including the 1969 Cuyohoga fire that played a major role in inspiring the formation of the EPA and the Clean Water Act of 1972. That same fire even had a cameo in Dr. Seuss’ The Lorax. The stench of failure is so strong in Cleveland that the Indians were the franchise chosen to be featured in Major League. Other than Jim Brown, Otto Graham and Lebron, Roger Dorn is probably the city’s most treasured professional athlete. At least there is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which is basically a Hard Rock Café without the food. ONE DAY WE SHALL FIND OUT:
Oklahoma City Thunder
One of my good friends and former college roommates is from Oklahoma City. His dad is an incredibly nice and smooth man who happens to own an oil and gas business and whose world view is equally shaped by attending college in Austin in the 1970s. If he were so inclined, I’d let him frack in my living room. Here is what he has to say about living in Oklahoma City: We may not have the beach and we may not have the mountains, but people sure smile and say hello when you pass them on the street. While it may have warmth and friendly strangers, I don’t know if that is enough for NBA free agents. And until Durant and Westbrook are no longer in the Sooner State, we will not find out. THAT KG FELLA WAS REAL TENACIOUS, DON’T YA KNOW?:
Minnesota Timberwolves
It is cold in Detroit. It is cold in Milwaukee. It is cold in Chicago. But only one United States city has an entire downtown system of enclosed pedestrian footbridges (Minneapolis Skyway System), so residents can walk in a climate-controlled environment year round. How fucking freezing does it have to be for a city to build an infrastructure so people never have to feel the outside air? Minneapolis is one of the more underrated American cities, but that designation mostly applies between Memorial and Labor Day. A July day on Lake Minnetonka is a Kenny Powers wet dream. But unless you’re an ice fishing enthusiast, there are better places for the young and absurdly rich to spend their winters. It does not help that the most notable retired former Timberwolf is Wally Szczerbiak. Light Beer and Sausages:
Milwaukee Bucks
Kareem played here, but after six seasons, forced a trade to the Lakers. In return, the Bucks received four guys I am certain you have never heard of. Oscar Robertson played here, but played the majority of his prime in Cincinnati. Ray Allen played here, but was traded after six and a half seasons along with a collection of spare parts for old Gary Payton (who left the next offseason) and Desmond Mason (who would play two more seasons for the Bucks). Expect to see the Bucks trade Giannis in three years for Deron Williams and Frank Kaminsky. The Bucks did have one of the better forgotten runs in NBA history between the 1970 and 1974 seasons, where they won an average of nearly 61 games per year. Their 1971 championship run led by Kareem and The Big O was among the most dominant in history, where they went 12-2 through the playoffs including a finals sweep. Most outside of Milwaukee forget that the Bucks’ success continued after Kareem and Oscar departed, when Sidney Moncrief led them to a decade of near excellence in the Reagan era. But their strong eighties teams have been greatly overshadowed by those great and better 76ers, Celtics and Pistons squads. As for the rest of Wisconsin - it is shitty beer, the Packers, cheese, Madison and whatever the hell is going on in Manitowoc County. The New Orleans Jazz Moved to Utah, Where They don’t Allow Music:
Utah Jazz
The State of Utah is about 61% Mormon and 91% white. Approximately 1.27% of the population is African-American. No other U.S. state that has an NBA team has a smaller African-American population. If the Jazz could guarantee the NBA players/budding film producers that their projects would be admitted to Sundance, they might be able to field a dangerous team. A Baron Davis/Kobe/Lebron core could perhaps secure the 7th seed in the West. The Jazz do boast a rich history and a rabid fan base. But the very smart and talented front office knows that they operate in Utah, so they are better served building through the draft, where you can retain players against their will.
I have lived in Reno Nevada for 8 years all together we lived here from 2002 to 2006 and currently have lived here from 2014 to currently. Things in Reno have changed it is a growing community city and with towns near by like Fernley, Sparks, Carson City, Sun Valley, Lemon Valley, Verdi, and Lake Tahoe there are a lot of different adventures a person could do in and around the area. Reno has made some changes the RENO arch sign recently updated in the down town area, and lots of new building has taken and changed a few things in and around the Reno area. If your coming to visit here are my top 10 places to visit and things to do in Reno Nevada. THE OUTLAW MICHEAL TOMSIK TOP 10 PLACES AND THINGS TO DO IN AND AROUND RENO NEVADA: #10) Junkee Clothing and Exchange located on 960 South Virginia Street. This store has a lot of consignments in it you can literally find anything from A to Z in it and also is a great place to shop for clothing. The parking lot is a bit small however but this is a fun store to visit or shop at. #9) The Basement located at 50 South Virginia Street. This was the old US Post Office it was remolded and a company called ELM Street took over the top part of the old Post Office. However if you look hard you will find the signs for The Basement. In the bottom part of the old Post Office it has some unique stores and shops. #8) Grand Sierra Resorts Casino located at 2500 East 2nd Street. Out of all the casinos in Reno area in my option this is the best one by far. This casino has a lot to offer an outside driving range into a huge man made pond, go carts and a big swing ride. Recently the casino remodeled the pool and is adding an indoor ice arena along with bowling alley, movie theater, fun center, and a shopping mall. Lots of restaurants, night club, sports wagering and gambling available as well.Easy accesses of I-80 and 395 makes the location great as well. Also the Truckee River runs along the back side of the property and it has a large RV park. #7) Scheels Sports Store located at 1200 Scheels Road in the Legend Shopping Mall. This store is awesome it has 2 levels and is full of sports stuff. It has an indoor Ferris Wheel, fresh and salt water fish tanks. A restaurant, and plenty of other fun stuff to play with and view. On the second floor it has a history by use of our Presidents whom all talk and move. This is a must see store. #6) Sparks Marina located at 300 Howard Drive. The marina is awesome with a 77 acre lake that has a walkway all the way around it. There is a dog park, fishing, boating, and events held at the marina. There are several local restaurants, Legends Mall, casinos that are near by. Also there is an RV park near the marina as well. It is great for a family day out. #5) National Auto Museum located at 10 Lake Street. If you love cars and history you will love this place. I had a great time walking through looking at all the old cars. #4) Nevada State Train Museum located at 2180 South Carson Street. If you have a love for trains this is for you. They also offer a train ride during certain times of the year. #3) Sierra Safari Zoo located at 12200 North Virginia Street. Since 1989 this very small zoo has operated under the radar of many people. The kids will love it however. #2) Virginia City located in the mountains just outside of Reno Nevada and Carson City. This city has a long history in Nevada. You will find tons of shopping, food, history and events being held. This is a nice drive through the mountains and is great place for a day out. #1) Lake Tahoe located in the mountains between Carson City and the California Border. Lake Tahoe is great in the summer or winter with ski resorts, casinos, shopping, boating, and other events held around the lake. There is RV and camp grounds, and is a very popular spot for locals and tourist alike.
Road trip next week! Lake Tahoe (home) to Mount Charleston (Las Vegas), NV to Flagstaff/Sedona, AZ to Santa Fe, NM to Tulsa, OK to St. Louis, MO (destination) - what "must sees" along the way?!
My fiance and I are leaving Lake Tahoe for the summer and heading back to my home-state of Missouri for the summer. (He hasn't met the family or anything and we figure that's rather important before gettin' hitched!) We'll be doing a long drive there. He's done some of it, but I've always flown home (been living in Northern California for 3+ years.) We're looking for brief stop-offs of the following variety: hot springs, notable or extremely "worth it" breweries (we LOVE beer and will buy growlers/refill our own), silly road-side attractions (biggest ball of string!), short hikes or rest areas that excel (we'll be cooking a lot of our own food on the camping stove - we're poorish types, but will also take suggestions for awesome, cheap eateries). We're both pretty outdoorsy and like to OOAH and AAH at scenery and crazy animals. Our route will take us down 395 South through California and toward 95 South just after Mono Lake. We'll be staying in a cheap hotel outside of Las Vegas because neither of us is too crazy about gambling and drinking cheap liquor (we have Reno for that). We'll be heading to Flagstaff, AZ the next day, and it's only a five-hour drive along I-40, so we'll have plenty of time to explore or hike a good, short-ish trail. We'll be couchsurfing in Flagstaff. After Flagstaff, we're going to follow I-40 until Albuquerque, where we'll veer North on Hwy 85, landing in Santa Fe for the night. We found out about the Silver Saddle Motel and booked a room for that night (our biggest splurge of the trip, but it seems too silly to pass up) and read about a brewery downtown, but we want to see what the "locals" or experienced Redditors have to say about it all. From Santa Fe, we're going to DRIVE LIKE CRAZY through Northern Texas/Amarillo and land on a Couchsurfing couch for the night in Tulsa. It's an eleven-hour drive on I-40, so we won't be able to do much stopping during this drive. After Tulsa, I think I have it covered. I grew up in Missouri (Southeast), but I'll take any and all suggestions. Perhaps I've missed something growing up there! I know it's a lot to post on AskReddit, but we've been overwhelmed searching online for things and we'd like to see what like-minded people have to recommend! Edit: We have such a short time period because of a music festival (Big Bounce at Belden) this weekend and a wedding we have to make it to in Missouri on the following Saturday.
South Lake Tahoe Trip? Park City, UT trip? A trip to your local slopes? Where to go? Want to meet up? So many options...
I'm not badass enough yet to say shredditors, but I don't want to keep typing "snowboarding/skiing redditors" so please forgive me. =P So I'm not a first-timer when it comes to snowboarding but I did just buy my first set of gear after researching and asking and trying. If you want to hear more about what I chose so you can critique, but this topic is about planning a trip. So now I have the gear and some cash to burn and I desperately want to take a trip out west (I'm in Cleveland). I've been wanting this for the past two years when I first got on a board, and now that I have the means to make it happen I'm practically giddy. My boarding experience has been at the rinky-dinky place nearby me, Peek n Peak in SW New York, and Killington in VT. Now, there are so many options that my engineer head is spinning and my usual methods of researching and processing aren't working. Websites and links claim tons of savings and blah blah this and blah blah that, but when I actually go there to find the deals, I'm getting redirected and getting prices that aren't close to the "sweet deals" everyone's promising. Could I trouble some of you more experienced folks and get your input? This is sort of an unorganized stream, so please bear with me:
When I bought my snow pants, the guy at the ski shop said he and his buddies love going to South Lake Tahoe. He said getting there is cake: Fly into Reno, cheap shuttle up to South Lake Tahoe for $23ish one-way, boom. Then from there, he claims there's a gondola or gondolas literally right near the casinos and lodging to take you up the mountain. Supposedly, lodging is dirt freaking cheap (on the order of <$40 a night because the casinos want you to show up and gamble your money away. Skiiers and snowboarders can apparently thus take advantage of that. Is any of what I'm saying true?
With that said, I'm not finding anything remotely like those lodging deals. Am I missing something? Any South Lake Tahoe vets have any tips?
Using the FAQ links on the right, I found liftopia and was looking at Utah places, in particular Park City. I could snag 5 consecutive days for about $400, but I don't know if Park City is a good choice or even easy to get to. I just happened to see Park City. And Deer Valley doesn't allow snowboarders? Really?
I'd like to avoid having to rent a car if possible. I understand this is asking a lot.
I expect to walk to the slopes or have to take a shuttle or bus, as ski-in/out is probably mega expensive.
I'm guessing I should avoid tourist-trappy areas, but outside of something like Vail or Aspen I have no idea whether other places are major tourist traps or not. Is this even an important point? I have no desire to do any sort of exclusive shopping like at an Aspen of Vail. I just want to get my ass on a humongous freakin hill and experience real powder.
Would any of you shredditors want to meet up if I'm coming to your area? Does anyone want to band up and share a room/plan a trip? I have a week of paid time off and can use it anytime, as long as we don't have an install, which shouldn't be until March. I can also take additional time off, but it just won't be paid.
I budgeted about a grand for my gear and only went a hundred over that. For a multi-day trip out west, should I be expecting roughly the same amount (for lodging and lift tix)? I figure that if I'm going spend the money on a flight out there, I better get in at least 4-5 days.
Should I even bother going out west or just stick to the east coast and driving distance, maybe Holiday Valley/Holimont, maybe a long drive up to Killington/Stowe/Knobby? Will the money to travel out west be worth it? I'm functional and can get down a hill pretty well for the most part, but I haven't ridden on true powder yet and if I can't take full advantage of the runs there, why waste the money?
Following on being "functional", I've heard that if you can ride on the shit we have out east, you can easily handle the gorgeous fluff out west. I worry about the veracity of a statement like that, because powder just has to be a different beast. It can't be that cut and dry. Or is it?
What am I missing and what am I getting? Am I asking salient questions? Like I said, my head is flippin swimming.
At a fundamental level, I'm just trying to set up a nice little trip out west. I fully expect to blow about a grand and can probably push it up to two grand, but don't want to burn through all my bonus, as I have bills to pay, and I want to take day trips around here and really get use out of my new gear. I don't need fancy lodging. I don't need special terrain parks. I just want to experience the wonder that some of you lucky bastards have local access to. Thanks so much for reading through this wall-o-text. Even if you can give me only one little tip, you'll have helped greatly. PS - Whose dick do I have to suck to get some damn snow instead of garbage rain and high temps?
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